So some 3.2.2 notes are out and FoK is getting a significant nerf:
Rogue
- Fan of Knives: The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 30%.
Combat
- Throwing Specialization: This talent no longer causes Fan of Knives to interrupt spellcasting.
Subtlety
- Honor Among Thieves: A 1-second cooldown is now enforced on how often a rogue can gain combo points from his party via this talent.
While this is a significant nerf to combat PvP, and rogue PvE AoE, I think in the long run it’s a good thing. Firstly, combat PvP FoK spec in it’s current form is absolutely ridiculous. It changes rogues from a single target burst / stunlock class to a knife spewing machine with the “I win” button of skilling spree. When I think of what the rogue class should be in arena, it’s definitely not an aoe PvP cleave class that sprays knives and interrupts. This spec brought our class in the wrong direction PvP wise and it’s viability can only serve to waft smoke in front of our real concerns. There was no way this spec was going to last and the fact it was viable at any point to just spam FoK and finish people with killing spree is just as bad as any ret pally or dk in this expansion. It’s better it got fixed earlier than later.
Regarding the Damage reduction placed on FoK, for PvE it really isn’t the end of the world. Yes, FoK is nice for some encounters and certainly is so for trash, but rogues strength is not in our AoE. FoK was often a tool to “cheat the meters” on some encounters when single target damage is the better option. Rogue’s PvE strength is designed around our single target prowess and I firmly believe that’s how it should be. Overall damage done isn’t always the most important PvE statistic for our class, it’s usually damage done to >< target because other classes can have more viable aoe and weaker single target sustained damage.
Now all that being said, when we take a look at FoK we can see just how weak this is for our final WOTLK ability. Post 3.2.2 it’s going to be weak for both PvE and PvP, and it’s only use is to catch people who are 5-8 yards away that we can’t snare or to aoe out rogues and mages. It’s not terrible but it’s a fairly weak and lame ability. Not expecting a fix and I’m not saying it breaks our class to not have a great final WOTLK ability, but I think FoK is extremely weak and could use a closer look from Blizz in the future.
Some other good news for 3.2.2
Death Knight
Pets
- Gnaw: This death knight ghoul ability now has a 1-minute cooldown.
The fact that deathknights and their cleave partners can global you in a gnaw makes this change great for rogues.
And the prot Pally nerfs:
Paladin
Talents
- Judgements of the Just: The reduction in cooldown to Hammer of Justice provided by this talent has been reduced to 5/10 seconds instead of 10/20 seconds.
- Touched by the Light: This talent now provides 20/40/60% of the paladin’s strength as spell power instead of 10/20/30% of the paladin’s stamina.
Related posts:
PolePosition!
I Lova The DK Nerf!
Comment by Mibr — August 14, 2009 @ 7:09 am
First lol xD
Comment by MadiM — August 14, 2009 @ 7:09 am
actually,ill miss the 30k dps on trash mobs :{
+ ill miss the interupt on trash,because sometimes,like thorim it was quite useful
anyways,gg
next nerf blizzrd : mutilate deals no damage ?
or COS : removed due beeing very cool thingy?!
Comment by Kobe — August 14, 2009 @ 7:32 am
Blizzard’s philosphy: Make all trees equally viable in both pve and pvp, and result being – one spec to rule them all. Really I don’t understand what is wrong with having one pvp tree and one pve tree, it’s at least better than having only one spec. That is true for most classes, since it always turn out every tree has its one purpose, for warr, for example, if you want to tank you go prot, pvp arms, dps fury, and what is wrong with that, thats how it’s always been and how it will be.
Comment by Exelence — August 14, 2009 @ 8:10 am
the FoK spec made 5v5 so lame… lol, imma miss having 12k dps on trash mobs now : (
Comment by Suishi — August 14, 2009 @ 8:59 am
the FoK spec made 5v5 so lame… lol, imma miss having 12k dps on trash mobs now : (
Comment by Suishi — August 14, 2009 @ 8:59 am
I am glad FoK is getting the PvP nerf…
but it is also disappointing that Rogues never recieve anything interesting from the patch notes. It is always bug fixes or nerfs.
Comment by Evolas — August 14, 2009 @ 9:03 am
I must admit the amazing aoe dps was nice, but I will miss the interupts more than anything. Being well over exp cap it made more sense for me to take a point out of wep exp and put it in throwing spec instead, this helped alot with sum fights were interupting was a vital part of the fight. Shame it’s being removed because of it’s op’ness in pvp tbh.
Comment by Hmmm — August 14, 2009 @ 9:09 am
Well all this does is bring our overall DPS down in PVE. Like we need another nerf to our only PVE function: DPS. If we had a raid utility to replace it I could understand it. I do agree our primary function is Single target DPS and not strong AOE but at least FoK provided some interupts and jacked up the meters for us a bit.
How about a patch note that read:
ROGUES:
Vanish is now working properly
FoK is nerfed 30% and rogues now have “Gift of Shadow” a 3o sec buff that increases all raid members haste by 35% for 30 seconds with a 2 min cooldown .
Comment by Wraith — August 14, 2009 @ 10:06 am
I completely agree with the interrupt nerf but I think it would have been better off to change either
remove/change the glyph of fan of knives instead of reducing it normally
or
add a 3 second cooldown on FoK or something
Comment by Hershey — August 14, 2009 @ 10:46 am
Well, it technically does have a 3 second cooldown after that 2nd or 3rd one ;P
I’m glad they’re getting rid of the FoK interrupt bit. Kind of lame that you can spam silence people your way to 2k in 5s. As for the 30% reduction, I don’t mind it too much, but I’d rather see it as 20% or something.
And huzzah with the prot pally change! I don’t doubt we’ll still see protadins healing in arena, but at least it won’t be nearly as bad.
Comment by Phrin — August 14, 2009 @ 11:51 am
Wraith: Well all this does is bring our overall DPS down in PVE. Like we need another nerf to our only PVE function: DPS. If we had a raid utility to replace it I could understand it. I do agree our primary function is Single target DPS and not strong AOE but at least FoK provided some interupts and jacked up the meters for us a bit.
“”( FoK’s Nerf is not a nerf to our dmg where supposed to be best at(Single target). we dont need more dps, rogues are fine with their current dps, we top the single target damage, or atleast sit at the top, fok’s nerf is understandable, it gives mages bk the king of aoe, and FoK’s Aoe damage if you were mutilate was kinda insane, time it with a envenom and you will do over 20k at 5+ mobbs.)”"
How about a patch note that read:
ROGUES:
Vanish is now working properly”"(Whould LOVE that!!! Keep the prayers rolling =D)”"
FoK is nerfed 30% and rogues now have “Gift of Shadow” a 3o sec buff that increases all raid members haste by 35% for 30 seconds with a 2 min cooldown .
“”(Give rogues a heroism now as well, with 2 min cd?, i dont think you were much serious, but lawl at 35% for the whole raid^^)”"
And the fix to sub proves that Blizzard is trying to make Sub as competetive with the other specs as possible for pve. Is seems like they are testing out HaT in all ways possible, maybe they will remove it, or remake it. Atleasti whould love to see sub back in pve.
Evolas: but it is also disappointing that Rogues never recieve anything interesting from the patch notes. It is always bug fixes or nerfs.
“”( Well you should be glad, that means that our class is working as intended, altough we got some minor problems and bugs like vanish, but we are one of the best designed classes in wow, and atm we are powerful in both pvp and pve, but indeed new abilites/changes allways makes you happy as long as they are cool/buff. But stil, don’t be sad becouse were not getting anything in the patch notes.)”"
but anyhow, i agree with excelence, tho having several specs for both pvp/pve makes the game more intresting, even if one of the specs outshines the dmg in pve, the other could bring more buffs to the raid(like atm Savage combat for Combat spec T.T). For pvp, altough this is hard; it whould be awesome if every class had atleast 2 specs for pvp, tho there will allways be a stronger spec. But we can allways hope they make them quite close to eachother so that setup/tactic can change the fact of wich spec is the best.
Comment by Ewalin — August 14, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
Reply to Ewalin:
What I mean is our class has stayed the same pretty much since the start of WotLK with a few minor changes to mutilate/overkill/HfB. It is always the same dull PvP or PvE rotation.
What I mean when I say “I want to see more stuff for Rogues on the patch notes” I mostly am talking about buffing sub to get it into line with the other trees so it actually is competitive again. It is sad that whenever I see a 27/0/44 Rogue trying to kill me, their Hemo is doing shit damage. So I turn around and get to bitch slap them with a mutilate. I respect other Rogues who go sub which is a lot harder to play than mut/prep. I would just love Blizzard to actually make it a better tree so I may find the strength to go sub as well.
Comment by Evolas — August 14, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
The FoK was fucking fun while it lasted but it does seem that blizzard tends to try and make us balanced by buffing us in one way or making making something a little too strong and instead of changing it and making something else a little better they just nerf it completely and pretty much scratch the whole idea but i have just respeced into sub class…with shadowdance and ambush and i find it A LOT better then mutilate and more fun im honeslty pulling out 10.5k ambush followed by 8k Evisc and SD is not hard to get used to. You should all try it for fun and start bringing back sub spec its still got its kick to it
Comment by Meltonic — August 14, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0xfoeZZcbfdhGdbAzAbot here’s my spec and it is a very nice change to the default mutilate and i find it a lot better seriously give it a try if you dont like it spec back (Best for Bg’s)
Comment by Meltonic — August 14, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
i dont rly see this as a good thing, theres never any good news for rogues, and when a top rogue see’s a 30% dmg nerf as a good thing to our class, u can see just how nerfed our class rly is. if they are going to nerf and nerf and nerf rogues, at least give us something to bring to a raid setting to ease the load.
Comment by frobroh — August 14, 2009 @ 10:53 pm
i wrote this to mmo-camp xD almost same article xDD
Comment by gerasdede — August 14, 2009 @ 11:55 pm
i still wanna know why everyone thinks mut is best for pvp? i see rogues mut my rogue, and it only crits for 1500 with poisons on me. my hemo does that, and requires less energy.
Comment by chuge — August 15, 2009 @ 2:15 am
Evolas: we 100% Agree, wtb Sub bk =( atleast for pvp.
Churge: My mutilates crit for about 2.6-3.0k on a 700+ Resc target. Hemo barely does 30% of that damage, and itsn ot only the abilitie itself you need to compare, its the spec. When mutilate crits you gain 2 combo’pnts for example. The mutilate spec is flexible thats why alot of rogues go mutilate instead of S-Dance. Deep Sub specs with S-Dance need alot of focus and skill for when and where to use your CD’s, cause a hemo spamming Sub rogues does not do as much damage as a mutilate spamming Assa Rogue, the only thing the sub rogue can rly bring is his S-Dance, otherwise Mutilate got it all.
frobroh: Rly, we were not supposed to be the best AoE AND single target dps in the game, the FOK Nerf is 100% understandable, and you say that we keep getting nerfed? well, we are stil top dps, we are stil one of the top classes in pvp. So it doesnt matter, if we get nerfs and are stil competetive-Top class then i dont see the problem? whould you have liked to be playing a OP class?
Blizzard isnt completetly out of their mind ;P They know what they are doing.
Rogues are Fine.. L2 trinket. <3
Comment by Ewalin — August 15, 2009 @ 2:45 am
FOK is absolutely the most unskilled thing in wow so far, pvp and pve wise. I’m happy to see that bad rogues will finally suck again in the damage meters, that 1 button spam = 10000dps was really retarded
Comment by xt — August 15, 2009 @ 3:15 am
FoK nerf looks really great thing applicable to PvP. Few days ago i watched this video: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=121407
(part about FoK rogue, he use 33/38/0 spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhe0oeMofroZMghdMfVoMur). Using this spec in arenas makes rogue a three-button class, which only spams FoK.
Comment by Tweedlum — August 15, 2009 @ 3:29 am
I reckon this nerf is fair.
And not really affecting pvp for those non FoK spec abusers.
And yes, gotta love the DK nerf.
Comment by Flair — August 15, 2009 @ 6:48 am
ok 2 hemos is the same amount of energy as one mut. and if it takes alot of skill to play shadowdance, then u must be unskilled and suck. my sub rogue has yet to lose a duel to any mut rogue. mut is garbage. and i dont even have shadowdance. plus shadowstep is great in arena.
Comment by chuge — August 15, 2009 @ 8:09 am
Imo remove FOK and make distract an ability that deals dmg and what about a cute 3 sec snare?. Lol, would never happend. However i think that the FOK spec was a sad view of rogue PvP, i think it in many ways dmged our reputation. Im hoping that Blizz has something new for rogues as we havent rlly received much since 3.0/3.02. It would have been rlly cool if we got some sort of new talent that would make for example sub viable again like s3 shadowstep when it got buffed. I have yet to give up.
Comment by Deliwio — August 15, 2009 @ 8:14 am
I´ve been playing the arenatournament 2.4.3 recently, and i have to say that i enjoy it a ton more then the whole “new” expansion. The pace was just so different and so much more enlightening then it is now. Shadowstep is still the same spell exept for that u cant do it while snared, but yet there are so few ppls playing it and that due to rogues being the Burst>Utility class, i would like to see that changed.
Comment by Deliwio — August 15, 2009 @ 8:18 am
A nerf was coming sooner or later, but at least they left Deadly Throw untouched in Throwing Specilisation. If there was some easier way of getting this it would be awesome instead of having to spec deep combat, like sacrificing something we already have such as an enchant or certain talents.
Comment by Lutz — August 15, 2009 @ 9:48 am
kind of shocked no one has mentioned how big of a hit this is on yogg0. now having BE’s is the only way to interrupt multiple guardians draining. sure it’s a nerf to pve dps on trash, it’s trash it really doesn’t matter. pvp wise it was the rogues version of prot pallys, just dumb.
Comment by Jir — August 15, 2009 @ 4:16 pm
Personally, as a rogue i didn’t feel the need to use FoK silence in arena ( as it’s found that most specs are 41/5/25, judging from 2v2 aspect) but i can see why they feel the need to nerf a repeatable silence with adrenaline procced = op, but however, i feel they need to add the variety aspect to a rogue, i mean, personally, i feel that FoK is a nice “catch-another-rogue” resort, apart from that i don’t use it, making it’s damage nerfed pve doesn’t make me satisfied with mages/spriests topping 15-20k+ aoe damage. Personally, i feel that varieng the way rogues’ use FoK would be better than just making it a “last resort move” in pvp. Who knows though, maybe blizzard have upcoming plans ( doubt it )
Comment by Reaperru — August 15, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
I don’t get the fok damage nerf at all. Although removing the interrupt is awesome.
Comment by W1lle — August 16, 2009 @ 9:55 am
Has anyone tried sub since the new patch? Maybe instead of straight up damage bleeds and extra mobility would be nice.
/shrug
Comment by Neurasthenia — August 16, 2009 @ 10:22 am
sub is the best rogue pvp spec…why wouldnt you try it
Comment by chuge — August 16, 2009 @ 12:30 pm
you, sir, are a fucking moron. All any class does for PVE aoe is 1 button spam. hunter=volley. mage=blizzard. spriest=mind sear(?). druid=hurricane. warlock=rain of fire
Comment by roguer — August 16, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
Mutilate is a more accepted and versatile spec yea SS is sick and hemo is nice, but from what Ive experienced its just not it anymore like it was n BC
Comment by Ike — August 17, 2009 @ 12:21 am
why did they have to nerf FoK dmg ? i believe it was quite fine.
Comment by Lampy — August 17, 2009 @ 8:53 am
Blizz is retarded. If they nerf rogues aoe dmg why dont they nerf other aoe dmg aswell with 30%? Easier way was just to change the interupts to 25%/50% and not the dmg of it :s. And ffs will they ever fix vanish!!!!!!!!!!!! Lazy bastards
Comment by Devke — August 18, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
i think that people should stfu wen it comes to classis evey fucken class gets made shit because you fag pvpers bitch ooo i got owned by a fury warrior in 2 hits big fucken deal L2 kill it not bitch tell thay give them 10% nerf and now you guys have bitched so much with fucken rogues there shit now for once thay had aoe and you bitching fucked that up
Comment by kain — August 26, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
The new patch notes show a 45% dmg nerf for Muti spec rogues. Say goodbye to your AoE dps…just remove FoK from the game completely, first the overkill nerf, and now this?
Lets hope their are Mage, Lock, and Hunter AoE nerfs incoming, because now their AoE are OP.
45%….sheesh.
Comment by Jerald — August 28, 2009 @ 7:50 am
seriously who gives a shit about pve aoe dps? anyone who isnt a retard will not look at aoe trash dps when comparing raiders dps.Boss dps is what counts and any serious raider knows that.Anyway any thoughts on the change to MP? I’m thinking 3 points in that with deadly in slow MH and instant on OH now will make the most sense.Discuss
Comment by Dugalla — August 29, 2009 @ 9:07 am
I agree completly with Dugalla, The only DPS on the meters I care about, especially care enough to brag about is Overall Boss fights. I actually found myself shutting anyone down who was spamming the “current DPS” during a raid. Yeah sure you can do 50K DPS on trash with (insert any random AOE here) but why can’t you break 3k on any boss fight? I guess its a matter of personal preference, but seriously bragging about your uber DPS on trash is like bringing a fat chick home and bragging to your friends.
Comment by Manana — September 8, 2009 @ 2:03 am
I am offended. Fat chicks needs LOTS of loving too.
Comment by Faeyna (Kul Tiras/Arena Realm 1) — September 8, 2009 @ 10:06 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=FDLNs1SVGqI
enjoy :v
Comment by warulex — September 12, 2009 @ 10:40 am