The New Overkill
I’ve had a chance to play around with the new overkill and I’ve come to a few conclusions that were generally what I expected going into the patch. Yes, it is absolutely and unequivocally a nerf from a pvp standpoint. You are essentially losing at least one instant ability from the old iteration of overkill in pvp in most scenarios.
The big thing here is that the new overkill would be fine for PvP if rogues were a class that steadily trained the same target for the entire duration of overkill. As we are not, often times we will use it and have a lot of the energy go to waste. It’s also true that during the old overkill, you often got an extra finisher out of it during your initial stun lock. This usually would give you an extra 25 energy from relentless strikes, so not only are we losing the initial instant ability in our burst, we’re also losing the instant of an extra 25 energy.
The other PvP issue is the fact that often times if vanish doesn’t work we immediately have to prep and vanish again, essentially wasting overkill, and the last thing rogues need in pvp is for vanish working to be even more important. Simple solution to this would be to make overkill stack. This really wouldn’t be OP because it’s not like rogues will blow all of their vanishes in arena just to stack overkill at the start, if they did then they’ll probably be dead soon enough. It would just not penalize a rogue for having to vanish twice within 20 seconds.
In PvE however, this is a buff for single target encounters. You no longer need to pool energy to vanish which means you can use it at any time, so it’s one less thing to worry about. For aoe situations, however (ie. Hodir arena floor, freya’s ads, ect) it’s a bit of a nerf because aoe situations usually don’t last very long. Pooling energy for a full vanish fok spam with the old overkill was superior. Overall I’d say the benefits of this change outweigh the negatives for PvE, but in reality it’s not going to significantly change PvE damage or play style.
I will say that it was a fair nerf. If someone had a problem with rogues it was usually regarding our ridiculous burst damage, especially off the start. As far as nerfs go for PvP, this is reasonable. It cuts down on the strongest aspect of our class that could be seen as a bit out of balance without breaking the class. At the same time, it’s a pretty lame and uninteresting 31 point talent now, even when compared against premed, and more so when compared against adrenaline rush. I’d be happy if Blizz kept going with these nerfs to burst and gave us some survivability instead.
Personal Rant, In-game tells
I know I’ve given this sort of disclaimer before but I know I need to again; I’m not trying to be melodramatic and I thoroughly understand that this is a game. Since this is a blog and blogs are designed for people to bitch I think I’ll take that liberty.
Honestly, I try my best to be nice in and out of game. If I can help someone under reasonable circumstances, I will. If I can choose between being an asshole or not I try to do the right thing. No one’s perfect and I don’t always do the right thing but I usually try to when I can.
When you start making videos or provide public opinions in this game (as I’m sure anyone else in this situation can attest) you will start getting in game tells, questions, and general attention. In the past I’ve tried my hardest to answer these as well as I can.
As time has progressed, however, the volume of tells I get has risen exponentially. It’s gotten to the point that I get an in game tell, on average, every 5 minutes I’m in game. Sometimes they are good questions, sometimes it’s people who just want to talk, sometimes they are stupid questions (yeah, your teacher was wrong when they said there are no stupid questions), or questions I’ve already addressed. Sometimes they are just outright hate tells.
A lot of the questions I get could just as easily be answered using google, or often times taking a few minutes to search through this site. Questions about using pve gear or strats against druid/plate teams as mage rogue are a bit frustrating when I’ve written full articles about it.
I appreciate that people enjoy videos that I make for fun. I try my best to share my experiences and relevant information through this site, but I’m aware that not every answer can be found here. I’ll try my best to continue to post relevant information to help people.
In the end what I’m kind of announcing here is that I’m finished responding to in game tells because I get way too many to respond. So if you think I’m an asshole because you’re server is down and you’re bored and you thought it would be a good idea to say what’s up or ask me something, and I don’t respond, I’m sorry. I just don’t have time to cycle through tells in the the middle of arena or a raid or even when I’m just dueling. I appreciate that people ask if I’m busy, but if I’m in game I’m not idling waiting to answer questions, I’m probably going to be busy.
If you do have a question or need to talk to me about something, the best way to contact me is feedback@roguerogue.com, which I cleaned out generally a few days ago and I’ll try to go through at least once a week. If I didn’t respond to a question you submitted, the question was probably outdated (my fault) or the answer was already available. Try to keep questions concise please. No offense, but I don’t care what server you’re from and I don’t have time to check out your armory.
I’ll probably have some updates about how Eviscerate x is going in the next article.
Related posts:
“HI AKRIOSS GIVE ME SOME ADVICES I’M A NAABZ LOL”
Kiss from a french who cannot tell you ! ( And who don’t want !. )
I hate the new Overkill . . . Rogue/Dps in arenas were very nerfed.
Comment by Echonia — June 4, 2009 @ 9:02 am
new overkill is stupid
fucking retard blizzard, all they know is nerf classes, so they have to now avoid that nerfed talent because its stupid to even spec it, and live with that.
Comment by lolwut — June 4, 2009 @ 9:22 am
Quote (blue post eu) YES EU amg.”In general, we’re feeling pretty good about class balance right now. Paladins and Death Knights have undergone many changes and are far more balanced now than they were prior to 3.1. We might need to make a few more minor tweaks to Death Knights and Retribution Paladins, but we do not foresee any major class balance changes for these classes coming in patch 3.2.”
- clearly we needed that nerf since rets are balanced , /agree fuck blizzard they all play dk/pala double gather proff
Comment by Skility — June 4, 2009 @ 9:52 am
The people who were stunlocked from 100% to 0 are the scrubs and noobs who can’t play there class. The overkill nerf wasn’t needed, it only allows these noobs to have a small window of survaiblity now that most won’t take.
Comment by Rocket — June 4, 2009 @ 9:55 am
Not a best time for rogue now, heh. Agree about new overkill. Lets just wait for a new changes and new skills
Comment by Zy — June 4, 2009 @ 10:09 am
Okay, the nerf is gay etc. but i totaly understand it.What i don’t understand though is why Blizz just refuses to nerf the RIGHT classes! i just don’t get it! are they totaly blind? or they just don’t really play their game or something ??
Comment by Ataroth — June 4, 2009 @ 10:16 am
In this time I prefer to play SD rather than mutilate
Comment by Xenosky — June 4, 2009 @ 10:55 am
QQ more Akrios? probably the bitchiest post I have ever read
Comment by lol — June 4, 2009 @ 11:03 am
Shut up man, Akrios is right :>
Comment by Niero — June 4, 2009 @ 11:37 am
Finally! Evis 10! me happy
Comment by futsel — June 4, 2009 @ 11:40 am
I agree with Akrios to , he is right there.
Comment by Echonia — June 4, 2009 @ 11:40 am
While it sucks not to have the burst for the first 6 seconds, it does allow us a lil extra dps time in pvp. I got some practice with it last night and found I could stay fighting a lil longer before i was useless before trying for a restealth. Our burst is a lil nerfed but it just requires us to change our playstyle a lil bit, and it could be much much worse. This almost seems like a well thought out change from blizz which is rare. And it was definitely a pve buff, i think it added 3 or 4 hundred to my single target dps, so im happy with it.
As for all the ingame tells, i can see where youre comin from, but that sorta shit comes with fame, hang in there bro.
Comment by Bendickson — June 4, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
heh, akrios, your right. You have probbly answered a thousnd ingame whisps about nooby/good questions. I understand why you wont answer anymore^^, but you’re the best.
Getting so many ingame tells it may be annoying, yes =P.- but as Bendickson said, ” that sorta shit comes with comes with fame”^^.
Loooking forward to the next Evisc x. Checking this site every day=D.
Gl man, keep it comming.
Comment by Phayn — June 4, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
sorry for buggin you with my tell the other day =x
Comment by Addelin — June 4, 2009 @ 2:40 pm
Well thanks for being nice when I talked to you that short, brief 4 minutes. I understand how frustrating in-game tell spamming can be (REALLY I DO)
Just continue being the good rogue player that you are. Don’t stress over stuff people may say or think about you. I applaud you for being a good sport about this article.
Can’t wait for Eviscerate X, keep us posted.
Evolas
P.S. That night you nearly killed both me and my Rogue friend in Ironforge scared the shit out of me the way you took my life down that fast. 4k attack power ftw?
Comment by Evolas — June 4, 2009 @ 3:12 pm
Must be a true pain for you Akrios. I remember when I transferred from Anub’arak (my original realm) to Detheroc I had my Glad title, and apparently I was one of the only rogues who had it on the damn server cause I was getting spammed with people wanting to do arena. Was so annoying, some days i just didnt want to log in cause of it. That is probably very minimal to the amount of in game tells that you get. Which is why if I ever get into my PvP prime again, I will most likely never make a PvP video. Personally I want my play style to remain my play style.
Oh yeah, overkill nerf sucks
Just stopped PvEing too lol. They should really counter balance that nerf with a survivability buff or something. Fighting against DKs in arena that do triple my damage (them in pve gear) and have so much control and ability to reset fights is just so rediculous.
Comment by Durlug — June 4, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
not only DK got problems – how about sick retri burst?
“working as intended” (c)
rogs was ok in my opinion. after really big muti nerf. i just can’t understand why blizz close their eyes on that there is no chance to beat pala by rogue in equivalent gear and “same skill”..but they found the way how to nerf rogue.. well i hope that “the dark time will pass” (c)
Comment by Xcizor aka Kross — June 4, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
lol balanced classes is balanced classes -.- fr rlz blizzard?
Comment by Mcstabz — June 4, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
I actually think I prefer the new overkill from a rogue+healer PoV. Seems like all the raging is coming from double dps teams, which makes sense, but it isn’t the only way people play this game.
Akrios, I’m sorry you’re feeling overwhelmed and I’ll just say that I appreciate the massive effort you’ve put into the community already. Take care!
Comment by chronic — June 4, 2009 @ 6:06 pm
I like the idea of a stacking overkill, although with vanish bugs half the time you don’t even enter stealth, but fixed vanish + stacking overkill would work well.
I too prefer the overkill change, as I’m playing with a disc priest, gives me much more constant damage than previously.
Comment by Scrumptious — June 4, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
The problem in arena is not rogue burst being too high
It’s only high against cloth and rogues
And ret palas, warr and DK don’t have too good burst? Oh, ok..
Blizzard can kiss my ass with the rogue nerf… We are not the class that needs nerf. we need a fix
They should take a look at their almighty 2h wielders
Comment by NenjiTeh1337 — June 5, 2009 @ 12:06 am
“Sometimes they are just outright hate tells.”
Comment by Sulf — June 5, 2009 @ 1:15 am
It sounds like very cool,but we’re still playing in Patch 3.05~~
Comment by A Wower In Chinese Mainland — June 5, 2009 @ 5:23 am
I appreciated the time you took to make this site enough to not roll a toon just to come annoy you.
My only issue with balance right now is ret pallies. They can pretty always do 25k dmg in 4 second stun, that’s ’sustained burst’.
Why should bubblers be able to out burst me, lame sauce. Sure, Dks are annoying too, why I always save them for last.
Not sure how I feel about overkill. I find if you pool energy before hitting that kidney shot, mut + mut + evis + gnomish lightning generator = GG regardless. Even with a healer on my team that’s how it goes. But, I’m a relative noob to arena and just now starting to win more than I lose. Gotta start somewhere!
Your vids helped a lot. I also recommend looking up ’steady mage rogue arena’. PvP video from the arcane mages point of view, it’s really good imo. Goes over strats for each fight. I think.. ‘Kynthia’ is the mage?
I’m rambling, good work man.
Comment by Phace - Fenris — June 5, 2009 @ 5:44 am
True
Comment by Deadlycuts — June 5, 2009 @ 6:38 am
This is a nerf to double dps comps. This was only a buff to Rogue/Healer teams. But its okay im starting to love 27/0/44 hemo shs spec.
Comment by Rocket — June 5, 2009 @ 8:55 am
this will sound stupid but in my opinion nerf us even more, i enjoy playing a class that has finesse to it, requires skill and generally wont have ppl you beat say omg go play a balanced class.
im nothing fancy on my rogue 2k rated scrub but i enjoy being the under dog.
new nerfs remove deadly brew, yes akrios will kill me for saying such a thing but i want it to be more about “wow he plays a rogue and hes good, fuck me”
Comment by Magoth — June 5, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
Hey Akrioss,
Good thing I got to you beforehand!
FFS, for like 2 hours my roommate and I debated about how Overkill was a nerf/buff. I so fucking win now, telling him (Fury warrior) that Overkill was a nerf in PvP/Duels PERIOD. Think about it this way.
Mutilate costs 60 energy + Glyph = 55 energy
w/ Original Overkill for 6 secs, 45 energy. Thats enough for the following.
2 Mutilates + ToT (Free w/ Overkill) + 1 Kick w/ PvP gloves on and 15 energy left to spare!
OR
2 Ambushes + ToT w/ 15 energy left to spare! This is of course assuming that you have 120 energy.
My roommate described the Overkill change as a “Miny Adrenaline Rush,” I told him to fuck himself. Good thing I did, cause if you would have called that shit a BUFF, I would have had to jump off a bridge.
With this nerf I find myself hard pressed to get some good combos rolling because the energy is just not pooling fast enough, Arena requires speed, and with having to wait a bit to get the energy my partner goes down or I go down. Not fair. OH, but I can be solo’d by a Rune Edge wielded by a DK, or chased endlessly while in stealth by a hunters Cheetah, or 1 shotted by a Ret Pally after eating a Divine Storm. Fuck Blizzard, BUFF MEH!
As for the ingame tells, I feel ya, but damn man. Think about Brad Pitt lmao, that dude must get a shitload of love/hate/stalker email!
Keep it up, WE STILL LOVE YOU!
(BTW, where do you get your trance? Its HAWT!)
Comment by Faeyna (Kul Tiras/Arena Realm 1) — June 6, 2009 @ 5:48 am
L2shadowdance
http://ruhuen.mybrute.com lolol
Comment by Ruhuen — June 6, 2009 @ 8:07 am
Need more personal rants !
Comment by Gingaone — June 6, 2009 @ 10:41 am
so basically you’re shunning your fans? that’s cool, i guess.
Comment by deeds — June 6, 2009 @ 8:39 pm
What if they made cloak useable at any point? like a bubble or iceblock can be. If you used the glyph you could use cloak when u were stunned without a trinket for the 40% reduced damage for 5 secs…just an idea
Comment by name — June 7, 2009 @ 3:35 pm
There is a night elf on vindi making you look extremely bad lols.
Also, with the overkill nerf I find myself playing a lot less aggressively, bc I simply don’t have the energy. Rather, I like to bait trinkets and the Imp. Ks and ToT my mage partner and then kite w.e is trying to gib me.
Comment by Rofl — June 7, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
Seems like a good idea imo
Comment by NenjiTeh1337 — June 8, 2009 @ 12:16 am
Overkill change is retarded
Blizz clearly said that mut rogues were made to pick a target and then kill it.. although “our burst is obviously too high”
Comment by NenjiTeh1337 — June 8, 2009 @ 12:18 am
Yes.. WotLK have bin a waste of money imo.. but we must stick together
I’m sure if we all just QQ enough on the official forums, blizz will have to change it.. That’s why they nerf us in the first place right? newbs whining cus they got pwned by better ppl?
Comment by NenjiTeh1337 — June 8, 2009 @ 12:20 am
we can’t do damage in pvp we can’t heal ourselves we can’t survive pally stunlock. This is a pvp class or what? Blizz must die!!!
Comment by skzzk — June 8, 2009 @ 4:39 am
Great article Akrios, I enjoyed reading every word of it.
Must say I understand how you feel about the in game tells. I’ve only made a few videos myself (probably only watched by people on my own server), and I get whispers from people from my own server. Even that is enought to get my blood boiling sometimes
Anyway, can’t wait to watch your next video! Keep up the good work!
P.s!
Quote: (ie. Hodir arena floor, freya’s ads, ect) – It’s Thorim arena floor
Comment by Zuggie — June 9, 2009 @ 4:05 am
i think paladins have bigger burst then rogues i dont understand why was this nerf needed.
Comment by hmm — June 10, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
I love MyBrute!
Comment by MyBrute Game — August 29, 2009 @ 10:29 am