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3.1 Rogue Specs and Glyphs

posted by Akrios on April 17th, 2009

Our spec Page has Move


HERE


Click “here” or click the “specs” link at the top of the site

Related posts:

  1. WOTLK Level 80 Rogue Specs
  2. 3.1 Notes Out, New Rogue Glyphs Out
  3. What to Expect on 3.0 Patch Day, Best Achievement and Glyphs, my Predictions and more…
  4. The Viable Specs at level 70– PvP and PvE

109 Comments »

  1. [...] Posts 3.1 Rogue Specs and GlyphsUnmercy 6: Encore3.1 is Live, Rogues Return to Top Single Target DPSTournament Realm Dueling [...]

    Pingback by WOTLK Level 80 Rogue Specs | Rogue-Rogue — April 17, 2009 @ 9:47 am

  2. Builds look very solid.

    I’d suggest you fix your color tags though. :)

    Comment by Rakirte — April 17, 2009 @ 9:57 am

  3. I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into the site, Akrios. This is always the first place I come to for help and advice. Keep up the great work!
    <3

    Comment by Spookilol — April 17, 2009 @ 11:38 am

  4. Man… Why Cheat Death if you have to wearing pve gear?(Shadow dance build http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhxcoxZZebfb0GdbqzAfot)

    Comment by Absimilliard — April 17, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

  5. Disregard my comment !!! lol i dint saw the text explaining the options…

    Comment by Absimilliard — April 17, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

  6. Why do you say focused attacks is required…myself a dglad rogue playing RMP a few other american rogues and about all of the euro rogues play without focused attacks and use deadened nerves…just curious

    Comment by Ranger — April 17, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

  7. Great post Akrios!!! but for your Full combat spec for PVE isnt it better as a glyph to have adrenaline rush instead of 3 more secs of SND?

    Comment by Torton — April 17, 2009 @ 2:39 pm

  8. So…. In the PvE Mutilate, specc.

    I’ve seen you’ve chosen: Rupture, Mutilate, HfB glyphs? Can you please tell me the reason?

    Imo i would go for: Vigor, Mutilate, HfB :S

    Comment by Dulcane — April 17, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

  9. oh yeah, rogues are now the best

    i like 3,1

    Comment by kvikli — April 17, 2009 @ 3:16 pm

  10. Akrios, what do you think about Lightning Reflexes for PvE Mut? So something along the lines of 51/18/2

    Comment by Synrg — April 17, 2009 @ 3:22 pm

  11. synrg

    im thinkin about it
    Try on insrtances
    The lightening reflexes build give me more dps

    Comment by kvikli — April 17, 2009 @ 3:29 pm

  12. In the mutilate pvp specc, why do u specc in murder? aren’t im right when i say that i does work on players?:S

    Comment by Ameroz — April 17, 2009 @ 4:34 pm

  13. No, learn to read.

    Comment by randomname — April 17, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

  14. Since there is no “Vigor” in the PvE mut build it would be totally worthless to glyph for it.

    Comment by Carpedies — April 17, 2009 @ 6:06 pm

  15. hmm for pvp mut/prep i have seen rogues going double Wound in arena and just bgs. Why is this?

    Comment by Posionssss — April 17, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

  16. best dps…

    Comment by Synrg — April 17, 2009 @ 6:30 pm

  17. where the hell is this week’s State of Stealth? o_O

    Comment by AlexSmith — April 17, 2009 @ 8:51 pm

  18. tbh I’m having fun as “improved lolstep” .
    basically it’s the same as level 70 lolstep, but with the extra talents to help boost it.
    having Quick Recovery really helps with your DPS in PvP, as any misses and etc won’t nuke your energy, so it makes that part of the energy regen problem nullified.
    & with HaT you don’t really run out of CP’s to use finishers.

    I know Filthy Tricks won’t really be useful in arena, and you could put those 2 points into say coldblood and something else, but for every other aspect of PvP it’s brilliant, esp with Prep Glyph (10 min prep annoys me too much, but 5 min prep I’ll happily blow just to 2x dismantle :P )

    You really need good weps and gear to make it viable though, not having the 2x coldblood burst from muti can suck if you can’t make up for it.

    I’m just having fun doing ShS->Eviscerate and seeing big numbers, even on decent geared players ^^

    You need Hemo glyph and Vigor glyph helps too.
    24/0/47 is my usual build, but you can alter it a bit to your preference.

    Comment by Toragami — April 17, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

  19. Confirmed!!!

    VOA (normal) top DPS. UP HC top DPS so far…

    51/13/7

    :-)

    Comment by Elfik — April 18, 2009 @ 2:46 am

  20. what about trinkets??- those from WG

    Thank you:-)

    Comment by Elfik — April 18, 2009 @ 2:49 am

  21. I couldn’t find glyphs for PvE for 51/13/7???

    Comment by Elfik — April 18, 2009 @ 2:51 am

  22. Mutilate and Hunger for Blood will probably be the best ones for PvE Mutilate. Lastly you can choose between Tricks of the Trade or Rupture, although I think Rupture seems strongest at the moment.

    Comment by Padmasana — April 18, 2009 @ 4:22 am

  23. Unless you’re taking one point from Ruthlessness, which i wouldn’t suggest.

    Comment by Padmasana — April 18, 2009 @ 4:26 am

  24. For the combat build 18/51/2, which poisons do you use? Wound offhand, Deadly mainhand? or vice versa?

    Also, I’ve been dummy testing the combat build with FoK glyph, and if there is a second target (i.e.- the heroic boss dummy beside the level 80 dummy), 3500 dps is a breeze with JUST standing there melee-ing (with slicendice up) and spamming FoK and using your cooldowns when up. I achieved more dps than when using SS rupture/snd cycle. I’m thinking that the FoK glyph is now a must for combat builds, and maybe even for Muti builds (replace rupture glyph). I also did Wound/Instant here with a 20/51/0 build and the last 2 points in improved poisons.

    Most bosses have some trash associated with them, and I’m telling that FoK glyph is a monster.

    I plan on dual speccing Muti main, Combat off, and using combat for “trashy” fights and muti for tanknspankers.

    Comment by kizlyar — April 18, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

  25. Right now, I play Shadow Dance very nicely and the Glyphs & Spec I use is here:

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhxcoeZZebfbhMdbAzVcot:AjpVzc

    The possible switchable talents are:

    Vile Poisons to Cheat Death
    Vile Poisons to Ruthlessness
    Vile Poisons to Improved Gouge

    I have no idea which one works better. I 2v2 with a Retadin and I have the 4-piece PvP set for 120 energy (which is enough) so I use TotT glyph.

    Comment by Gaust — April 18, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

  26. Yeah, the Hat pve spec is great, looks like sub is finally gonna see some PvE. By the way akrios IS EVIS 10 COMING?!?!?!?!?!??!??111!1/!?1/1/?

    Comment by Coolguy — April 18, 2009 @ 4:22 pm

  27. its Nice that they buffed combat again but its so fucking booring and requires no skill what so ever so i will stick with Muti in Both PvE and PvP We think exactly same about glyphts Akrios Keep it up m8 xD

    Comment by Warbringer — April 18, 2009 @ 5:03 pm

  28. I wanted to point out something for PVE glyph choices. I spec into the 7/51/13 Variant of combat (I don’t see any reason not to) and I find that the rupture glyph is totally uneccisary. Using a 1 Slice/5 Rupture rotation means you will have 100% rupture uptime on most boss fights. I found that with glyph of Rupture added into the mix I ended up having 3-4 extra seconds where I still had slice up, rupture could not be replaced, and I had 5 combo points with my energy rising. My personal preference for this build is Glyph of Murder Spree, Glyph of Slice and Dice, and Glyph of Sinister Strike.

    I really don’t see a purpose for increasing the time on an ability that will be up 100% of the time no matter how you do it. The one advantage I could see is if you can some how fit in a 3rd finisher without increasing the time on your slice or allowing your rupture to fall.

    Comment by Shizuka (Sargeras) — April 18, 2009 @ 7:14 pm

  29. Your PvE combat specc is incorrect, Vile poisions is a must after deadly posion buff.

    Comment by Raphner — April 18, 2009 @ 10:05 pm

  30. I am now hearing that the best daggers for PVE is a 1.8 hardest hiting main hand you can find, but what about offhand. I have heard 1.8 is best for offhand too due to the duel weild talent. Is that true. do you want the hardest hitting weapons possible, or do you want a faster offhand?

    Comment by Nagaplaynomo — April 18, 2009 @ 11:31 pm

  31. hey these look very nice but i was wondering if you think that shadowstep cold blood could be nice for this patch too, its the one ive been using and its pretty good . i want a second look at it

    this is it:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhe0oeMobbZZe0fbhhddVzAMo

    weapons im using are calamitys grasp and webbed death
    please reply if not to my email then here or to Pyrallen on shadowmoon US thanks
    peace
    -Pyrallen

    Comment by Pyrallen — April 19, 2009 @ 12:37 am

  32. Hi Akrios
    What do you think about this build linked here:
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=4&tal=30530310500213252010330100000500000000000000000000000005320232030000120000000000000
    It is good in Your opinion? I think improoved kidney shot is a good idea on arenas because it increase dmg from all sources and player that is in stun can be a target of all teammates and killed very quickly.

    Comment by d3athman — April 19, 2009 @ 1:12 am

  33. Is there some change i’ve missed during my abscence from my rogue regarding Lethality? Back in lvl 70 it was a horrible that was only spend points in for “filling” out. I’m talking pvp here. Did any change occur that i’m not aware of?

    Comment by Teldarion — April 19, 2009 @ 7:47 am

  34. i congratulations you for this work, that’s really good and important for all and help us a lot ^^

    i want you to see this spec of mutilate, i know that isn’t very good but i want your opinion if you can of this

    51/18/2

    you have 2% more to critical hit
    10% more haste that changes your atack speed when you have the other 40% from 1′18 to 0′9
    you have 10 or 20 more energy (with vigor glyph

    you haven’t the 25 energy recovery and the chance to gain 1 combo point

    thanks ^^

    Comment by Tibu — April 19, 2009 @ 8:22 am

  35. sry for double post, here is the spec:

    http://www.wow-europe.com/es/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?tal=00502310535210052010333105100500500500300000000000000000020000000000000000000000000

    Comment by Tibu — April 19, 2009 @ 8:23 am

  36. sry again, i think this other spec is very interesting too:

    http://www.wow-europe.com/es/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?tal=00502310535210052010333105100500200000000000000000000005320000030000000000000000000

    Comment by Tibu — April 19, 2009 @ 8:36 am

  37. When i first saw the combat changes i looked at this and specced it, i have to say, if you can keep the rotation up it is great, but without the extra 5 in sub, it is difficult to keep up a proper rotation all the time, especially when you have to move around during raids.

    Comment by Maiv — April 19, 2009 @ 5:15 pm

  38. atm i’m using a sub rogue (pve), but i’ve never seen anyone else use this build so it’d be nice to get a second opinion on it…

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fbeboxZZebfdIhzdVzVcRx:aidVmc

    main and offhand swords with deadly poison

    Comment by Shnissigah — April 20, 2009 @ 2:55 am

  39. What rotation are you going when going sub in pve?

    Comment by Stålpär — April 20, 2009 @ 3:09 am

  40. can’t decide what to drop for mutilate glyph :/

    Comment by Loqt — April 20, 2009 @ 5:17 am

  41. for any of the combat specs, primarily the 15/51/5 & 18/51/2 what rotations are being used here? as of now, I’m 15/51/5 and use 5s/5r/5evis pool energy and repeat. im not glyphed for rupture, but rather AR/SnD/SS. thoughts??

    Comment by LouSir17 — April 20, 2009 @ 9:52 am

  42. for soloing, i use premed->ShS->garrote->hemo->rupture->ghostly strike->hemo to 5*->5*evis, with DP main and off

    for instances and raids, premed->cheap shot (or if immune to stuns, ambush)->EA->rupt->SnD->evis (and spam till i need to refresh another finisher), using HaT and hemo to gen cp’s, with CP main and instant off

    Comment by Shnissigah — April 20, 2009 @ 12:12 pm

  43. Why go master poisioner instead of tunr the tables , isnt it a waste with the new envenom glyph

    Comment by Kalimero — April 20, 2009 @ 7:56 pm

  44. That glyph was removed from the game.

    Comment by Kalara — April 20, 2009 @ 8:21 pm

  45. it’s not beneficial to take vigor in a pve build

    Comment by Buddhist — April 20, 2009 @ 9:48 pm

  46. Atm im using this spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhxcoxZhZebfboGdbAzVbot as pvp one. It provides very big dmg boost after shadowstep , basically target is dead in 4 sec max ( a part from paladins ) How to nuke ?
    premed > shadowstep – must
    then i suggest opening with a cheap shot , wait for trinket to take of stun and go kidney , no way to break 6 sec stun , and shadowstep 20% dmg is still ticking so wait a bit for energy and with perfect timing pop shadowdance – Ambush will have 20% more dmg and what you do is ambush ambush evis ( im BE so get + 15 energy from silence ) and ambush. its rather impossible to survive this since ambush hits for 4-8k evis if crits its around 7 k in best way its lets say 7 + 7 + 7 + 7 – 28 k :)

    Energy pool 130:
    Energy – 45 cheap shot , kidney 25 ( + 25 from RS ) so basically lets say it takes 2 seconds we are left with 105 energy then go
    Shdance 110 energy – ambush 45 , ambush 45 – around 30-40 energy left drop evis 35 energy ( + 25 from RS ) and you are left with lets say 10 regain 15 ( only BE ) so u have 25 , and just wait 2 secs for next 20 energy and ambush.

    its a killer – priest 25k hp died faster than i noticed that

    hope this will help every rogue addicted to Shadowdance ,

    Cheers Calithae

    Comment by Calithae — April 21, 2009 @ 12:37 am

  47. I was just wondering if for your mutilate hfb pve spec it would hurt your dps if you droped 2 points from percision and put them into imp sd then droped 3 points from close quarters combat and put them into turn the tables

    since i have over 500 hit rating i don’t think changing the points from precision to imp sd would make a big difference but the increase in the sd up time would be nice

    the only thing i don’t know is if it would be worth it to drop the points from close quarters combat and put it into turn the tables i figure you would be gaining 3% extra crit during raid

    would be great if yall could give me some feedback on this :)

    Comment by Lurac — April 21, 2009 @ 1:59 am

  48. as PvE im mutilate , but i never considered such setup with additional points in turn the tables , but imp slice imo is pointless atm i dont have a single problem with keeping snd and rupture on boss , even i have around 4 spare seconds on slice ( using glyph of snd ) but i was considering taking points from CQC and precision and putting it in serrated blades in sub tree. This might be a good idea with 4set bonus having rupture crit around 2.5k ( atm normal rupture is 1-1.1k per tick for me) basically ttt gives you 8% more crit chance with mutilate which for me is ( raid buffed ) 47% + 15% from talent. which gives you anyway good chance to hit with a critical.

    Comment by Calithae — April 21, 2009 @ 4:19 am

  49. Hey I have a question concerning the new glyph/talents. Upon logging in and respeccing my talent tree I knew I still wanted to go mutilate, So I put the 51 points assassination with the 3 in Master Poisoner, 2 in Fleet Footed (gonna go back and put them into Murder) and 1 into vigor. With the extra 10points in Vigor, and HfB now lasting a longer time and the new Mutilate glyph I feel as though enough energy is being saved up by these things to not really slow down your energy regeneration. So in the combat tree I went 18 instead of 13. going 5/5 into close quarters and 3into lighting reflexes for the 10% melee haste. This does cut out the 60% chance of restoring 25 energy, but it also increases the crit chance on the daggers by 2more percent ontop of 10% additional melee haste.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=00532300535010052010333105100500500300000000000000000005020000000000000000000000000&glyph=182022000000&version=9767

    thats what my talent looks like now.

    For glyphs Im going. HfB, mutilate, and FoK. Im pulls of mutliple mobs I am using a macro that spams coldblood with FoK for the energy replenish/extra damage.

    Comment by Joey — April 21, 2009 @ 6:39 am

  50. And what about the new patch as it comes to daggers , should switch then slow to MH and fast to OH?

    cause i been told to so , but i doubt it

    Comment by Kalimero — April 21, 2009 @ 7:25 am

  51. Okay, thanks guys :)
    *Love from Europe* <3

    Comment by Dulcane — April 21, 2009 @ 10:54 am

  52. IM SOLD.

    Comment by Reignyn — April 21, 2009 @ 11:52 am

  53. Honestly tho, doing AoE does not have to do with end- dps to do, single target dps (for ex, bosses) is where you want to do dps.
    Just after 3.1 got live i manage to push 3.8-4.5 k dps on malygos normal.
    I think Mutilate is a very strong specc, and that why i will stick to it to the end.

    Comment by Kamágra — April 21, 2009 @ 9:05 pm

  54. after few tests on deconstructor:
    SR in mainhand ( WD off ) did more dps than WD main ( Murder off ) even though SR has 26 agi enchant and both murder and WD has berserking.

    Dps for kill fight with SR and WD:
    My DPS was 7.1k
    second rogue 6.9k
    Both muti
    Combat rogue 6.4k

    Comment by Calithae — April 22, 2009 @ 12:04 am

  55. Nice list Akrios.. But I was thinking, seeing from the hemo buff part in sinister calling, is a hemo pvp build viable now?

    Comment by Jiona — April 22, 2009 @ 1:56 am

  56. My Gleader is using the new combat build and hes putting Instant (o.O) on mainhand and Deadly offhand, and his dps went up by… 1.2k (no thanks to the patch combat buffs :P ) soo i’m going to say instant poison O.o but i have NO idea why.. previously it was deadly MH wound offhand for combat.

    Comment by Elanar — April 22, 2009 @ 5:37 am

  57. Calithae Could you please tell me your rotation :D :D i can’t get above 5.1k pve mut Berserking on my SR mh and WD oh, decently geared. Not good belt or cape though. Z: everything else is 25 epic though.

    Comment by Elanar — April 22, 2009 @ 5:39 am

  58. Then again…. My groups are anti rogue, no friendly buffs. NO fury warriors, no feral druids… no retadins :Z No enhance..

    Comment by Elanar — April 22, 2009 @ 5:41 am

  59. Okay, still 51/13/7 best muti spec. So, MH Slow + Instant / OH Fast + Deadly ???

    Comment by Narki — April 23, 2009 @ 8:10 am

  60. hey i made a interesting spec look at this
    its pve muti spec whit lightning reflexes for 10% haste
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=00532300535010052010333105100500500300000000000000000005020000000000000000000000000&glyph=182022000000&version=9767

    Comment by alinutza — April 23, 2009 @ 11:03 am

  61. sry posted wrong link hers the right one
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=00532300535010052010333105100510500400300000000000000000020000000000000000000000000&glyph=182022000000&version=9767

    Comment by alinutza — April 23, 2009 @ 11:04 am

  62. ya i was toying with the idea of a combat mace spec and with the new tier peices 4 piece bonus with rupture and i started messing with specs and this is what i came up with

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhbbZMgmb0cEoru0xRtxMd0h:0hfVc

    its really based off armor pent and rupture damage

    would love some feedback on this :) if possible

    Comment by Lurac — April 23, 2009 @ 10:48 pm

  63. vile poisons will likely be best when playing with a healer in arena.

    You say this, but how will it work – the talent has been changed to 30% Resistance on DOT Poisons , from bc were it was all poisons. yeah just thought id point that out – or were you planning to have deadly on your weapon( doesnt make alot of sense)

    Comment by random — April 24, 2009 @ 2:15 am

  64. @Posionssss
    Double Wound Poison is usually to defeat the tougher classes out there (Warrior, Paladin, DK for example) where Mind Numbering wouldn’t make much of a difference and Slice and Dice + double WP gives you a stream of small dents into the armor of these behemoths.

    Comment by Aeltyr — April 25, 2009 @ 4:40 am

  65. Elanor PvE rotation is pretty simple:

    Start with garrote drop HfB SnD Muti envenom then 2x muti rupture 2x muti envenom all the way till the boss is dead , on some bosses use more envenom ( Deconstructor on heart ) or more focus on rupture when u have to run more and stay away from boss , razor is probably the worst boss for mutilate , when one of my rogues is on top of dps with combat spec on that encounter im around 5th place , but everthing changes when boss is down. also im planning to change few talents and se how it will work for 4/5 rupt 4 env 5 env 4/5 rupt.

    cheers

    Comment by Calithae — April 25, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

  66. what is SR and WD?

    Comment by Tsugomaru — April 27, 2009 @ 5:05 am

  67. sinister revenge and webbed death

    Comment by Bendickson — April 27, 2009 @ 8:42 am

  68. hey man i think your awesome and for me the mutilate HFB is the optional specc for pve dmg and more fun (according to me) and as you say alot more relaxing to do the cycle ;)

    Comment by Chadez — April 28, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

  69. Can you tell me your normal rotation? I want to try combat for pve!

    Comment by Chowhound — April 29, 2009 @ 6:57 am

  70. Hmm one thing i wonder is why you dont post a PvE combat spec for swords… I use swords always have and probably always will. And I looked over your specs, mainly cos I want to try out a mutilate spec to see if I could like/grow on it.. And I checked out the combat specs aswell to get a second opinion. At first it didnt add up, then when I looked closer I noticed you had Closer Quarters in all 3 of the variants, meaning that all 3 specs are for fist/dagger users. Personally my spec for swords is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0eboxZMgVo0cxqru0xRtL:hci and I can compete with both ret palas and Dks and mutilate rogues on the dps/dmg.

    Comment by Fogtmann — April 30, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

  71. I’ve been running http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0eb0xxZMgVoxcxoru0xRt since 3.1 went live, Instant Poison on both hands. It doesnt proc savage combat but i tested it and it still does more damage than instant/deadly or instant/wound. ive been number one on every single damage meter for every raid ive ever been in. Try it for yourself.

    Comment by Zakk — May 1, 2009 @ 10:29 pm

  72. Im playing on a rogue/lock team, and im torn between ruthlessness, blood spatter, and vile poisons. Atm ive got 1 point in ruthlessness and 2 in blood spatter, being a fan of bleeds, but then again, i dont bleed everything, and the 1 point in ruthlessness isnt very significant. Would 3/3 vile poisons be a better choice for rogue/lock or 3/3 ruthlessness?

    Comment by Bendickson — May 4, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

  73. destro lock btw, if that helps

    Comment by Bendickson — May 4, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

  74. rogues rocks alliance sucks FOR THR HORDE

    Comment by undeadkiller — May 5, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

  75. FOR THE HORDE ALLIANCE SUCKS U ALLIANCE NOOBS

    Comment by undeadkiller — May 5, 2009 @ 5:22 pm

  76. Oh here I thought this was a rogue resource site and not a flaming point for kids that play horde and think that yelling “for the horde” is gonna make them popular. :P

    Comment by Griefer — May 6, 2009 @ 11:31 am

  77. Cant u see he is retarded :)

    Comment by Ayraon — May 6, 2009 @ 8:29 pm

  78. Hey guys, what about Initiative on the Mutilate/Preparation build? Don’t you think that it’s necessary? I’m back playing a rogue now, but before WOTLK, since release I used to sped talent points in there.

    Comment by Salzin — May 8, 2009 @ 5:21 am

  79. Another thing.. I’m missing improved kidney shot too! =\ but I’m still killing like a monster so ok, I’m happy!

    Comment by Salzin — May 8, 2009 @ 5:31 am

  80. I don’t really think it’s worth it, you have more than enough cp with a mutilate build

    Comment by Akrios — May 8, 2009 @ 11:27 am

  81. I see you post the specs which is great but how about some kind of rotation with it? I just inherited a 70 rogue (now 71) that I’ve been leveling 11/51/0 for now but I’m having a hard time finding a rotation. Seems like I’m always waiting for energy. Here is what I do
    CS > (BF or AR if up) SS > SnD > SSx3 > Evis it just seems like I am always waiting. Any suggestions?

    Comment by Vanish — May 11, 2009 @ 5:54 pm

  82. I’ve been wondering about glyph choices. There’s an uncanny amount of good PvP (as well as PvE, in fact) glyphs, and I can’t seem to choose. CloS for example seems worth it to an extent vs. retridins (considering they’re rather over the top at the moment), Prep seems useful too but I already had a hard time dropping Sprint (this should be a minor glyph). Not going to bother with TotT for the simple reason I play with a (healing) priest. I’m working with Eviscerate, Vigour and Mutilate now. I’m thinking of dropping vigour for sprint/prep/CloS because you don’t cap your energy -that- often in PvP, but what are your thoughts?
    Also, what are your thoughts on Focused attacks vs. Deadened Nerves (this was popular with the rogues at least on my server pre-3,1).

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 15, 2009 @ 12:30 am

  83. I’m not sure you should bother with rotations while levelling, honestly, it seems rather pointless. SnD is useful to an extent but my playstyle (I’ve been mutilate ever since level 62 on this rogue, I hated combat throughout TBC, so I raided/PvP’d and blatantly levelled with it) is as such that it’s not that useful. What I did and do now when for example doing dailies is open with CS, Mutilate, eviscerate, mutilate again if the target’s not dead yet, and stuff mostly is dead then. My gear is pretty much BiS or 2nd BiS (3.0) though, so I don’t know how well this works for levelling, as if, if you have the AP and crit for this to work. Try it though, just bursting stuff down within the duration of your stuns. I recall being able to kill things within my stealth cooldown – easily, in fact – when levelling to 80 as mutilate though. Then again I did raid up to T6 content with that rogue and had the badge daggers, gear to which you may not have access.

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 15, 2009 @ 12:34 am

  84. lol,geeks with no life come here to shout out faction insults,you guys are pathetic,bet you’ve never been laid,isnt that just sad? :D

    Comment by retards — May 16, 2009 @ 5:59 am

  85. Fueling them doesn’t help either. Help keep Roguerogue.com for knowledge, leave trolling for the Realm forums.

    Akrios, quick question for you.

    Situation 10 man raid:
    Should I utilize Expose Armor into a rotation when there is no warrior around to Sunder Armor? I do it, but I really and honestly see no DPS increase on a large scale. Depending on the crits it can flux between 50-100 points after 4 bouts of 7 minutes each on test dummies.
    Every rogue on my server swears by it, but then again, I am quite sure they also sleep with there thumbs in their mouths as well. =P

    Waiting for Eviscerate X and my roguerogue.com t-shirt btw… =D

    Comment by Faeyna (Kul'Tiras, Arena Realm 1) — May 16, 2009 @ 8:16 am

  86. Elitist Jerks has a thread about this, check it out;

    http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t56227-major_armor_debuff/p2/

    In an EA cycle, you do something like:

    Refresh HfB if it’s about to fall
    EA if it’s about to fall
    Envenom if SnD is about to fall
    Rupture if it is down
    Otherwise Envenom.

    I myself can, at this point, fit an EA in my cycles. I think most rogues with access to Ulduar gear (or Naxx25 gear already) get to a point where their energy caps before SnD or Rupture reaches a low duration, or you have to refresh HfB, meaning you can fit in another Envenom for some extra damage. Replacing this envenom with EA – once your cycles are good and running – would work.
    Also I use EA on the Exposed Heart of the Deconstructor (2nd boss in Ulduar) to allow our melee to dish out a little bit extra.

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 17, 2009 @ 1:58 am

  87. I’d however like to add to your comment that you see little increase in DPS. For convenience I’ll assume you’re mutilate, meaning quite a large portion of your damage comes from attacks that aren’t reduced by armour – poisons. For me, melee and mutilate are still #1 and 2, which does make EA viable to an extent, but it won’t provide that massive an upgrade. Especially with the new poison mechanics and we can use 1,8 speed daggers again (bleeding LPC…) – which I do.

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 17, 2009 @ 2:02 am

  88. pve related post zomg

    Hey i just got the 4piece bonus from t8 and am quite happy with how it works. But it kinda made me want to try out a new spec, muti with serrated blades.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ef0exoVboIuVo0xMZxbc0h:TfImVc

    Im on almost 39% crit unbuffed now anyway so loosing CqC doesnt hurt to much and ditching 3 points in precision means i will have to get about 100 hit rating more wich is easily fixed if i get lucky with the trinket from flame leviathan in 10man. The plus side is the armor penetration you get from serrated blades and ofc the +30% rupture damage.

    I havent tried it out yet but it looks like it could work quite nice considering how little i loose vs what i gain.

    Just posting here to see if anyone can give some good input :)
    Thanks in advance

    Comment by Willie — May 18, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

  89. I can not say I’ve tried it but based on reasoning it seems a viable option. If I ever get that trinket myself I’ll consider something similar, but for now all loot is being ninja’d by a mage that’s #10+ on damage but has fuckloads of DKP ^___^ not cool. I do think EJ mentioned this spec as a possibility. Think it would work best with 4P T8 indeed, but when you get access to trinkets like Grim Toll (this comb’d with Serrated Blades could make it even more powerful) or Pyrite Infuser (as you mentioned) it could be well viable.
    Try it and let me know :) what is the exact amoutn of HR needed for 3% hit?
    Also a bit of criticism to your spec in assassination – pick Turn the Tables if you have a retridin or pala tank with the +3% crit talent. The other effects aren’t worth it. They just MAY be when you have 2×1,8 speed daggers (which I use, they do make applying DP a bit harder) but IMO, it doens’t beat Turn the Tables.

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 18, 2009 @ 4:11 pm

  90. I didnt even think of the grim toll proc, that might be even better. I never bothered to try and get it before since i didnt really need the hit.. 3% hit should be 98.37 hit rating.
    And also i am using 2xDaschal’s bite so i prefer master poisoner just to not have to worry about dp not stacking fast enough, in my experience slower is better now :) but that might just be my preferance. And the master poisoner crit also works for poison etc, unlike TtT.. But now that you mention it, im worried i should have done more research about it, is the +3% crit from master poisoner a raid buff or was it just a rogue mechanic that was bugged before that made it stack when more then one rogue had it? And if it is a raid buff does it not stack with the pala buff? :<

    Comment by Willie — May 18, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

  91. 2xDaschal’s Bite? Damn you ;p still running around with Anarchy while all the combat rogues get the awesome 1,8 speed daggers (we have a hunter with 2xSR >.> now that’s depressing). Damn exams ;p
    Anyhow, yes, the only reason you’re having Master Poisoner is for the application of Deadly Poison, as long as there’s a paladin with the talent, because no, they don’t stack – same thing applies to a shaman’s Totem of Wrath, by the way. I’d say throw it in a spreadsheet and do say 10 tests with each talent. I do still think the extra crit from TtT is worth it, because I at least only have slight issues in the beginning of a fight. After one envenom, the extra procchance on the poison often solves it (even if that envenom might be done with 4/5 CP and only 1-2 DP), so I don’t think it’s worth it. I tried the talent out and at the time didn’t take CQC – I hated it. My point being that TtT is very much worth it. I don’t know your % damage of mutilate on recount, but mine is pretty high when I got my own Daschal’s Bite.
    As a side note, I prefer Mavanas’ spreadsheet because it’s so nice and extensive. Check here http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t51449-rogue_dps_simulation_spreadsheet/.
    Best of luck :)

    Comment by Elynndriel — May 18, 2009 @ 11:12 pm

  92. H.A.T. Fist Dag – This build ISN’t the one that changed my dps output in dungeons and raids. (Tried the Mutilate Spec first and liked it) Here are my problems with it. You have to be able to stack enough Expertise>Crit>Haste>Hit> in that order. I have only been able to come up off of 2 MAIN HAND fist weps, and neither of them really have the stats to make a triumphant dps build. The good fists come up off KT in 10 and 25 man Naxx. SO for this build really with the lvl of daggers and swords I have acheived i really can’t see using this build when the dps on these other weapons is clearly higher… Plus the pre KT fist weps just dont have any usable stats… no crit no hit no experitse.. SOO How can this build be top dps … it just cant not without having the perfect gearset right? 2500 dps in a raid is not epic by any means… atleast that is what im getting on average.

    Comment by DocShadow — May 22, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

  93. I made a critical error in my last post and I wanted to clarify so I dont sound like a complete nubcake… When I said “You have to be able to stack enough Expertise>Crit>Haste>Hit> in that order.” I made a big mistake. But here is a little bit of info i have devised which my help you understand why I put hit at the end of that chain.

    I did some testing with the gear I have (using the HAT Fist spec) I tried out several maxx stat combinations. Hit, Expertise, Crit, and Haste – The order in which dps was highest was ordered like this.
    Not unbelieveable I must add.
    Maxx hit ( I was around 470+ ) Top not a big difference between the next two though which I must say was a shock.
    Maxx Expertise ( 32 expertise both hands with my gear equipped 2 swords im human )
    Maxx Haste ( 2 dags around 1.30 wep speed at that point )
    Maxx Crit over 37% crit rate was unbeleiveably low it was almost pointless to try a pure crit stack.

    Ok so this is why I put Hit at low priority. Because this spec is mainly for boss encounters dungeons and raids I spent alot of time on the training dummy and this is what i found. This spec seemed to be better weilding 2 swords (for a human atleast) maximizing your expertise with a crit priority over haste and hit. ALTHOUGH I wouldnt put it past a person with better gear to stack a little haste over hit at some point.

    Now I put hit low priority because of the fact that it just seems to unimaginable that anyone would think that you could get away with a boss encounter under 250 hit, you would just miss too much to be any effective dps. ON THE OTHER HAND to go into a boss encounter and stack only Expertise you would be dodged and parried way too much to be effective in that division. SO Considering the mass ammount of dodge parries I accumulated with maxx hit and the opposite maxx expertise I found that Expertise be a more beneficial stat because of gear available at lower item levels.

    YOu can stack HIT to your filled at the gills and still be dodged parried enough to be lacking dps in raids. BUT if you can bring yourself up around a certain point with the expertise filling in hit rating isnt all that hard with all of the yellow sockets, enchants, etc.

    With that said, I chose to stack crit over Hit (bearing in mind that some hit is needed to be effective. Im not sure but somewhere in the ammount of 250-300 hit stat points be available either by gear or buff. This way you can find the gear that will put you over 24 expertise and 35% crit to generate a “decent ammount” of dps with your lower lvl gear items.

    Honestly though, with all of this conversation over this particular subject I havent fully tested the Mutilate HFB spec in the same realms ( with my gear ) I would just expect it be similar output if not better than the HAT spec because of the item stats and constant dps, burst etc. Every once in a while you crit for 10k its not consistent by any means … but i see more white damage even with HAT and that makes me wonder.

    Will try out other specs,, will try to post more.
    TY

    Comment by DocShadow — May 23, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

  94. hey akrios gonna give ya a challenge (if ya even pay attention to the reply’s :D ) I’ve been 2k raten with mut and SD spec so I’ll give a challenge to all of you rogue’s akrios, neilyo, Buddhist, I wanna see who will be the first rogue to reach 2k with a old school spec, http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhe0oeMowZZe0rdhhddVzA0o:kdiVcz this will be the spec you can mess with the talent points a little bit if you wish but you got to get shadowstep and not Filthy Tricks or Honor Among Thieves or anything past that and you have to get cold blood remember this will be a old school spec for the fun of it , I will be posting a pvp video when or if i finally get to 2k with that rateing, so let the best rogue win =D

    Comment by TehRogue — May 26, 2009 @ 7:54 pm

  95. Just curious, has anyone tried the HaT Fist/dagger PVE spec? I am somewhat curious about it, seeing as I use both. I haven’t been lucky enough to get a good sword from Naxx or Ulduar yet, so I am stuck with Crimson Steel and Omen of ruin currently. but I can still pull off 2.5-2.7k DPS with my current spec. Apart from grabbing a 1H sword and speccing Fist/Sword in the combat tree, is there another viable high damage PVE spec you guys know about?

    This is my current spec, please feel free to ctitique and throw some pointers. After all there has to be some dedicated raiders on this site :P

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Caelestrasz&cn=Manana&gn=is+a+rockstar

    Thanks, and I love this site BTW.

    Comment by Manana — June 4, 2009 @ 1:17 am

  96. Why ins’t 27/00/44 ShS Hemo Spec not menetetioned I see many high rated rogues with this spec and they run double dps for 2s.

    Comment by Rocket — June 4, 2009 @ 9:49 am

  97. I’ve been wondering for a while if a sealfate surprise attacks build would work and if the ss glyph combined with seal fate stack? I’d test it myself but I don’t have any weapons but daggers atm

    Comment by Redfang — June 5, 2009 @ 8:50 am

  98. fool…can’t even spell “THE” correctly.

    Comment by foolish horde — June 13, 2009 @ 8:13 am

  99. I play horde, but that comment is embarrassing, undeadkiller. You really should pick up a dictionary, or at least type things into MS Word before you post them.. And please, keep that 2 year old garbage off of a forum like this.

    Comment by Tubalooba — June 15, 2009 @ 11:36 pm

  100. ^Agreed.

    Comment by Tubalooba — June 15, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

  101. ….blblbl

    Comment by flameu — June 29, 2009 @ 8:55 am

  102. [...] I play the standard mutilate prep, which can be found on our spec page here. [...]

    Pingback by Eviscerate Arenas Volume VI « Rogue-Rogue — June 30, 2009 @ 10:58 am

  103. I like alot the rogue in 3.1 i just hope that blizz dont mess things up in 3.2

    Comment by dirk — July 15, 2009 @ 12:32 pm

  104. Finding the right spec can be very difficult, but if you want a raiding/pvp combo spec then I went all out. 51/13/7. I would actually suggest this to anyone who can decide. I had help starting with this spec but i dont even stealth here is my rotation on ramdom mobs: mut, mut, envemom and then theyre dead already. You will always have instant poison on main and deadly on off. This is h and raid boss rotation: mut, mut, SnD, mut, envenom, (mut, mut, rupture, mut, envenom)<– repeat perenths and if you have enough time on your SnD to fit anothe mut after rupture, then do it.(you should have about 11 seconds left on SnD to fit in that mut.

    HAVE FUN!!!

    Comment by Lecrayen — July 23, 2009 @ 11:36 pm

  105. Thanks Elyn.

    Comment by Faeyna (Kul Tiras-Arena 1) — July 24, 2009 @ 7:44 am

  106. So which is the best spec if ur mace/fist
    gear is half ulduar and ToC- H ToC gear
    average dps in combat current build 3k+
    HfB mut dps
    HaT fist/dagger

    Comment by Sez — September 17, 2009 @ 3:15 pm

  107. i haven’t tried other dps other than combat
    so a1 have opinions? also akrios data seems to be gone from armory
    Alexstrasza is the server i’m in

    Comment by Sez — September 17, 2009 @ 3:17 pm

  108. I’m playing with a frost mage in the 2v2 arena and i’ve found that playing with a 44/4/23 (see link below) is the right way for us. It has been working really good so far, especially vs Plate healer teams.

    With IP on MH and DP on OH i almost never use eviscerate anymore, instead i use Envenom which ignore your targets armor.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0xfoexoirocuZ0LZebfb0hzb

    try it out and let me know what you think of it.

    Comment by woxX — November 4, 2009 @ 1:48 am

  109. IP and DP… in pvp?
    Erm… what about being OVER healed? Even with better dmg of IP, healers should rape you…

    Comment by Ryonnen — November 4, 2009 @ 11:49 am

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