I feel a bit lame asking for this, but hook me up with some votes by clicking here:
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/contest.php
It’s the Top Skilled 2008 Warcraftmovies contest second round of voting. Thanks!
More Rogue Nerfs Incoming
I can’t even believe this because rogues have already been excessively nerfed (and DKs, Hunters, and Paladins have gone untouched) but check out this blue post.
An Overkill change would have required more redesign of the talents and abilities than we were willing to make for a small patch like this. We’re also unconvinced it would have fixed the problem alone.
Basically, it might have helped stealth burst, but wouldn’t have helped with unstealthed burst, which was still too high in our opinion. Two Mutilates and a Cold Blood Eviscerate within one Kidney Shot duration is a ton of damage, and is possible with unglyphed Vigor and no Overkill. Add a partner or an interrupt or whatever and it can mean death for most players in very few GCDs.
Overkill and glyphed Vigor are something we will probably look at for 3.1, depending on how the current changes shake out.
So let me get this straight. It’s ok for a ret pally to kill me in a hoj. It’s ok for a deathknight to obliterate me for 10000+ and a hunter to kill me in a tnt stun, all classes with higher survivability than rogues. It’s ok for a pally to burst heal for a players entire health bar without ever casting and never go oom, but rogue damage is too ridiculous. Blue posts like this kind of disgust me.
Check out this other blue post in response to this comment:
I have been a mutilate rogue since s3. Mutilate has always been about setting up a kill, and bursting someone down inside of a KS, with strong poisons and decent sustained DPS to help make up for the lack of mobility.
Now the burst feels very, very low. We do not have the mobility or survivabity to play the outlast game. Poisons are not as strong as they were pre-TBC, since wound doesnt stack and they have 0 dispell resist. At this point people will be QQing “OMG they have a 50% proc rate!!!”, but they dont realize that mutilate already had a 40% proc rate on PVP poisons, because they were used to playing agaisnt sub rogues.
We agree with you about how an Assassination rogue should play – setting up a kill and then delivering it. But bursting someone down who is crowd-controlled while the victim has very limited decisions they can actually make to avoid death is only fun for the rogue. The Mutilate button push is just very strong when poisons are nearly always on the victim.
I have said before that we don’t think Arena is fun when healers are immortal until mana-drained. However, we also don’t think Arena is fun when someone always dies in the opening few seconds. The matches need to last long enough for something to actually happen — for you to decide who you are going to attack or how to respond to their actions. If someone literally has almost no response for your attacks then that is not skill that is allowing you to win matches (and I am not just talking to rogues here).
We have made burst nerfs to Retribution paladins, death knights, Arms warriors, Arcane mages, hunters, Feral druids and now rogues. Almost unanimously, the nerfed classes thought that nerfs were needed but that our specific nerfs went too far. Nerfing classes is never fun. Players hate it, and ultimately it means we screwed up or at the very least failed to predict new tactics. But we still need to do it for the good of the game when we think it is warranted. There will be more.
The thing that scares me here is “we have made”. Wait, what? When?
I have to hope there is just a lot more to come for 3.1 that we haven’t seen, because this is just getting stupid.
Related posts:
Voted for you in round 1 and 2, and I’m sad to see the nerfs to rogues when other superiour classes is untouched
Comment by Unseen — February 17, 2009 @ 11:34 am
Blue posts are a JOKE! “We have made burst nerfs to Retribution paladins and death knights” This is just FALSE.. They are just lying omg!
Comment by Izzu — February 17, 2009 @ 11:41 am
“I feel a bit lame asking for this”
Don’t worry, you’ve always been lame. Boom, roasted
Comment by Araphen — February 17, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
hahaha you got me there araphen
“We have made burst nerfs to Retribution paladins and death knights” This is just FALSE.. They are just lying omg!
Either they are lying or living in a different world
Comment by Akrios — February 17, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
So when will shadowdance specs get posted?
Comment by Frugle — February 17, 2009 @ 12:20 pm
im truely amazed at what this has come to, im still trying to figure out where DKs and Rets where nerfed, I still get killed in HOJs.
Comment by Dròòl — February 17, 2009 @ 12:33 pm
The problem isn’t that our burst damage is too high, the problem lies with all the players in arena that blow their trinket at the wrong time, like on cheap shot, only to be locked down for the duration of kidney shot. People blow all their cooldowns too soon to try to win the burst damage race only to be left with nothing to defend themselves with.
As for the nerfs, I wouldn’t be too upset if the other classes that needed them were receiving them as well, but as we all know, they’re not. Best thing i can say is its time to try out new specs and adapt playing styles, we have enough tricks up our sleeves to keep us on top.
Comment by Onshin — February 17, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
When were these supposed nerfs to all these other classes? I just started getting back into arena after a long break from it (Season 3 Glad, only did first 3-4 weeks of S4 and I just started up again last week). And this just saddens me. Our “burst” is now crap, as well as our survivability, if I am out of stealth for any amount of time I get rocked by any Hunter, DK, Pally, Warrior, etc. But oh no, its fine that these classes have burst AND survivability, but Rogues aren’t allowed to have either.
Seems like we are being punished for other peoples mistakes. People don’t have many options during a stunlock? Please, do people do arena without a trinket nowadays or something. The fact that most people will trinket a Cheap Shot right into my Kidney Shot is THEIR fault, not mine. And if they are talking about 1v1 duels and what not, that trinketing a kidney shot eventually leads you into a Blind. Well…….i thought pvp wasn’t supposed to be balanced around 1v1 situations.
The fact that if I get HoJ’ed without my trinket up, I am either dead, or I go from 100% down to below 10% health within that stun. Or maybe that one of our ways of surviving is a vanish from combat, that STILL has not been fixed, working as intended my ass, more like lazy Blizzard employees.
Im assuming that they don’t even look at top arena teams, which around 50% are comprised of at least a Paladin or DK.
Comment by Durlug — February 17, 2009 @ 1:43 pm
Akrios, would you mind posting a link to the thread(s) that those posts appeared in? I’d love to see if blues respond to all the people looking for specific examples as to the nerfs they’ve made against other classes — because like you, I sure as hell don’t remember any serious nerfs in recent patches.
Comment by Shinomori — February 17, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
Voted.
Comment by Havk — February 17, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
Wow… just wow. What has this game come to? Another nerf, on top of a nerf and a fixed “bug” that left mutilate almost powerless? And people are STILL bitching? This is ridiculous, I can understand maybe a warlock bitching since they are on the bottom of the chain, but that’s it, no other classes have the right to complain when they can out DPS and out survive a rogue any day *cough* hunters *cough*… Pallies and DKs control this game now.
Comment by Aggrø — February 17, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
What happened to the times when rogues were suppose the be THE single target DPS? “Very high melee damage potential” right… looks like it’s the World of DKcraft now.
Btw Akrioss and Nition, good job on the updates, I always come here first knowing you guys always keep the site updated with new information
And yes I did vote for you
Comment by Aggrø — February 17, 2009 @ 2:30 pm
Well I believe what happened was the mutilate hot fix didn’t do anything but actually in some cases buffed your mutilate damage instead of nerf it. So the hot fix this time was to fix that yet they ended up nerfing your talents and double nerfed the class. Gc is a moron as I play a dk and I don’t recall ever losing burst unless hes talking about the gargoyle weakened.
Comment by Darkhatred — February 17, 2009 @ 3:04 pm
This is saddening. I quit doing arenas with my rogue because I’ve been going against to many Holy Pally and priest team that won’t run OOM and never die. My Wound poison was a joke to them because the cleansed it. Also I hope DK and Ret Pallies get a big surprise that will make terms even or slightly even.
Comment by Ironstiker — February 17, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
Disgusting.
i was dueling my pally friend the other day-ret- and i would put in my stuns and by the end of him he was around 30% -nothing a bubble won’t fix- he hammer of justiced me right as i dismantled him. he then killed me in 5 seconds. without a weapon. i’m fairly well geared, and he isn’t near full t7.5 or anything.
and we get the damage nerf?
Comment by Westsidecows — February 17, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
I don’t think the mutilate nerf was that bad. Actually i think we are one of the most balanced classes atm along with priests and mages.
But nerfing us even more? I don’t see the reason to do so, we’re fine as we are now. If they nerf our damage more we really need some survivability buff to compensate, for obvious reasons.
This is just from my 2v2s experience. I feel absolutely useless in 3v3 with the dominance of hunters, DKs and paladins. Heck I haven’t even bothered with 5v5 because of that.
Comment by Cubeh — February 17, 2009 @ 4:50 pm
god.. this game is getting stupid. nerf the one class that can die in a matter for 5secs while there are class’s that take atleast 30secs+ to kill. Is blizzard like tryying to force rogues into a full pve class????
i mean come on.. a have been killed, like most rogues, in a HoJ which is just rediculas..
sorry if my english is bad. :X
Comment by scizok — February 17, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
Man, this is just stupid. I totally agree with you Akrioss as I am still playing my rogue and I feel that without poping a cooldown a DK or a Ret pally can just burst me down. I wonder how blizzard is doing choosing these nerfs. Have class names on a board and throw a dart blindfolded?
Comment by Edge — February 17, 2009 @ 5:05 pm
Hey man, I have voted for you in rounds 1 and 2 and I will continue to keep voting for you. Sadly, Blizzard is so retarded that they can’t see the problems they have created with their own game.
Today my 2v2 set up (Feral Druid / Rogue) which is currently at 2060+, got 2v1ed by an unholy DK because we just completely destroyed the holy pally before she got a chance to bubble. The fact that a player who is playing a class that wears plate, has both many magic defenses and physical damage defenses, can do so much damage as to 2v1 my team is just redicilous.
Hey, I know Rogues are still pretty OP and I can understand that mutilate is a faceroll spec to other classes, but it seems to me that too many people are emphasizing us way too much, which leaves RETardins and DK’s and huntards out of the picture, taregting the Rogues for the nerfs. If 3.1 doesn’t nerf other classes as well, I will quit the game, disregarding Evolas 3. This is your last chance Blizzard Entertainment!
Comment by Evolas — February 17, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
@ Edge:
My theory is that Blizzard has 2 seperate Hats labeled “Nerfs” and “BUffs”
Each patch they throw some unbelieveable random nerfs or buffs in each hat. These can be ANYTHING, i.e. Arcane Barrage doing 5k damage with a 3 sec cd.
When the time comes to picking patch notes for the classes, each employee will pick out a slip of paper and reveal the buff or nerf given to the class.
I am willing to bet money they do this…
Comment by Evolas — February 17, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
Are you kidding me? Where do you see rogues in the top 10 of any battlegroup… It’s paladins, death knights, hunters, the classes that have remained untouched. It’s noobs complaining about their OWN lack of skill why they cant kill a rogue or open up on one because theyre frustrated about being stunned for a few seconds(the point of stealth is to give us the starter because we aren’t a class made for taking damage).
Where did blizzard nerf any other classes… the only nerf i even saw a mage get was making slow’s casting speed increase from 60% to 30% (and we got that nerf too along with warlocks)
It’s so depressing to see them ruin the class i love… you want to make mutilate a skill spec… bring the positional aspect back in(was more fun to me anyways because i CAN actually do it). How can they not know what theyre doing.
Comment by Kreyic — February 17, 2009 @ 7:26 pm
“My theory is that Blizzard has 2 seperate Hats labeled “Nerfs” and “BUffs”
Each patch they throw some unbelieveable random nerfs or buffs in each hat. These can be ANYTHING, i.e. Arcane Barrage doing 5k damage with a 3 sec cd.
When the time comes to picking patch notes for the classes, each employee will pick out a slip of paper and reveal the buff or nerf given to the class.
I am willing to bet money they do this…”
I have pictures.
Comment by Dròòl — February 17, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
O RLY?
Comment by Evolas — February 17, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
It Seems Shadow dance Becomes More and more Valuable than Mutilate…if they Nerf Mutilate Completely and don’t Nerf Hunter’s , dks , palas then I’ll have To reroll one of them…
Comment by Desolator — February 18, 2009 @ 1:18 am
THA NEW BLizZ 1337 Designer is a mother Fucker!
Comment by jjman — February 18, 2009 @ 2:31 am
“We have made burst nerfs to Retribution paladins, death knights, Arms warriors, Arcane mages, hunters, Feral druids”
Oh wow they don’t 3 shots anymore just 4 shot most people…what a nerf! o_O
Mmm except the Death Knight that was actualy buffed and not nerfed…
And yeah I’ve got a retpala 4/5 T7 and a 3 shot most rogues dum enough to leave me do as I please, which is in no way right… :/
Comment by Gravedigger — February 18, 2009 @ 3:02 am
nc blizz… nc blizz…
Comment by Krojaz — February 18, 2009 @ 5:07 am
Nerf everything we have but give us a 41yards range stun plz.
Comment by Kashtin — February 18, 2009 @ 5:27 am
JOOKKE..omg, what nerf is speaking ?
I try double rogue mutilate, and this sux hard…
Dk/pala own us…, if there is a pala, the fight is already loose.
Comment by Rogou — February 18, 2009 @ 7:11 am
___________________________________________________________________
You now what he funny part is…NO?
1)Blizzard is concentrating on ROGUE pvp,ye rogues are imba but its not the rogue who is imba its the player and blizzard dos not understand that…
2)Rogue is pure DPS class we dont have 2 3 specs that we can change we dont have tank spec healer spec that we can change when we are bored,we can only DPS.And the funny thing is that we are low DPS
Im 6 on DPS in my guild on 25man i thnik that is OK…But you are wrong how the fuck can WARRIOR,DRUID,PRIEST,SHAMAN,DK…(hybrid class) out DPS a pure DPS class that is what i wona now…
And i dont now any more i stoped playing pvp because i broke 3 keyboreds and i say ok its time to PVE i pve and we cleared WTOLK in 10days -_- come on…So what i do now is lvl and try not to get pissed of but that is not working
___________________________________________________________________
Comment by Rogue — February 18, 2009 @ 7:23 am
I’m totally agree with u, I’ve do same as u, and now i’m bored too.
Pve in WTOLK sux a lot…
Comment by Rogou — February 18, 2009 @ 7:56 am
i wanted to vote for Grim
he was the one who inspired me playing a rogue with his Total Annihilation Movie.
Anyways, i voted for you *cheer*
Comment by Zack — February 18, 2009 @ 8:00 am
Backstab wasn’t nerfed and poisons are not needed for extra damage so….. Back to Backstab/Shadowstep/Shadow Dance. Sure thing DKs and Pallies are owning the game, but I do know they are not immortal. Play smart and enjoy: I know I can’t win every fight.
We are glass cannons and the others are Titanium super reinforced napalm style bombs. I know that too and we are right to complain about it. It seems like pre-BC times are back: Everyone QQ’ed about rogues cause they just didn’t know how to kill them. I got a LOT easier now and still they never figured it out. Guess more nerfs will come to us unless the other tards playing DKs and Pallies learn to play: Then blizz will see how we (DON’T) have burst damage like DKs/Pallies/…
Blargh… Felt good to complain about this shit!
Comment by Yun — February 18, 2009 @ 8:01 am
I’m still owning a lot with the mutilate pvp build. I tried the shd/ambush build before that and had trouble whenever my target would bubble or kite during shd. My shd cooldown would be blown and my only option was to have to reposition for backstabs. There was definitely more burst damage with the shd/ambush build than with mutilate however only every 2 minutes and only if you could get the perfect setup on your opponent. It was even harder in 2v2 or 3v3 when I had to not only contend with the possibility of bubbles/trinkets and all the ways they can get out of stuns(which apparently blizzard claims don’t exist) but also with their partners immediately ccing me during shd. i’m hesitant to go back to that build while mutilate still seems to be doing ok for me. i’ve thought about using the increased range for ambush glyph that everyone initially laughed at to help prevent enemies from kiting as much if they get a few steps ahead of me. Is that any good?
i’m curious to hear more about how the new combat/sub build is turning out in pvp, seems to me like it wouldn’t do enough burst.
Comment by Roarck — February 18, 2009 @ 9:15 am
Blizzard makes me to stop playing wow on oficial
i have now break from wow after 1 month i maybe return if they nerf other classes … if not … i´ll go on any private server … Damm blizzard with their rogue nerfs . When i tryied wotlk with wotlk trial i had 70lvl S2-S4 geared rogue .. i won most of duels vs mages,locks,priests(shadow),warriors(arms or prot),hunters(hard but won 
),shamans,paladins(i won vs retris but prot or holy are immortal vs 70lvl :X ), rogues ( yea me 70lvl kick ass 80lvls 
)
Comment by Killingblow ( Drak Thul ) — February 18, 2009 @ 9:29 am
What the hell is blizzards problem? I am just going to quit the game if they take any more DPS away from me. its bad enough the only TRUE 100% DPS CLASS, gets beat by everything…
Comment by Darkban — February 18, 2009 @ 10:48 am
Strange when you check out all the top ranked arena teams… full of paladins & DK’s…. rogues are down the list now and they still want us lower.
Comment by Phratt — February 18, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
okay.
I dont understand why mutilate rogues get nerfed without looking at paladins, dks, hunters, etc. as you’ve mentioned already, but I (of course a rogue^^) am looking forward to these nerfs because mutilate sucks bad.
It’s probably the most boring spec the rogue ever used in pvp, so dont you think ShS is way more fun to play?
I hope, they’re gonna buff ShS a little bit or make ShD playable just because this spec takes a lot more skill than mutilate.
p.s. I am German, so leave my grammar alone, mkay?
Comment by maludan — February 18, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
I was playing mutilate since tbc and before wotlk it takes more skill then now but its still funny spec . ofc shD is funnier but i love mutilate
and this nerfs maked me quit wow 
Comment by Killingblow ( Drak Thul ) — February 18, 2009 @ 1:21 pm
This really sucks, I love the Rogue but I get killed in 3 seconds by Ret pallys. Paladins are not supposed to have burst DPS, Blizzard has it all wrong. They only thing pally should slay like that are undead mobs
I just hope they stop with this nonsense and let us do the damage we are supposed to do, all of the crybabys should go to PvE servers and stay out of the BG’s and Arenas, problem solved.
I will quit WoW if they ruin the Rog class, I have no interest in playing any other classes.
Comment by Poken — February 18, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
Well… I wouldn’t go as far as to quit WoW and commit suicide or whatever you guys are thinking about doing, lol. The nerf itself wouldn’t be THAT bad if all the classes were balanced, yea I can understand where you guys are coming from but we’ve gone through nerfs before and we can survive through this one. I mean when ShS Hemo was nerfed everyone bitched until they found out how much damage mutilate actually did and now they’re doing the same to Mutilate, I guess they’re just trying to cycle the specs around some, a change now and then. Rogues don’t die off, we just keep coming back for more.
Comment by Aggrø — February 18, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
Woah woah woah, WHAT? I will admit that Mutilate was way too strong in 3.0.8, the nerf was acceptable. And I’ve been working my ass off in arenas, looking at a bunch of guides and stepping up my reflexes just to do good (which is hard when a Death Knight puts up a Rune Weapon and 2 shot me as if I were a level 10), and now more nerfs? Now, all these nerfs are making ShS/Hemo look viable. Anyway, I’m most likely going to stop playing this shit depending on 3.1.
Comment by Krus — February 18, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
I just got back into WOW after taking a break and found my dps king class rogue to be nothing but a shire mouse, WTF happen, Every class sees me now, some how I keep getting pulled out of my vanish, back stab is like using a butter knife on all classes and still a waste of energy for damage done, let alone it takes some skill to get position for our sub attacks. I am fed up with people seeing rogues as a liability for raids b/c we have no survivability and are out dps by every class so why bring a rogue, people complain about losing to rogues 1v1 but that’s what is suppose to happen when you run into or use to run into the dps king, I can’t even get close to a hunter to slap him with a dagger, Blizz has broke my rogue!
Comment by Scraze — February 18, 2009 @ 3:00 pm
I don’t understand what the FUCK is wrong with the fucking developers. Both Deathknights, and Paladins have the same if not better burst of a Rogue, crazy utility, and undeniably unprecedented survivability (plate + bubble + heals + heals on attacks etc). I got my friend into WoW and guess what. When he reached 60 on his Rogue (he didn’t buy BC or WoTLK) yet I said buy BC and WoTLK and roll DK and trust me you will own. Guess what. Hes in epics, with a few blues and can almost kill me and I am working my fucking ass off doing everything to kill him and he (who doesn’t even know how to play a DK the best). I just don’t understand what the fuck they are thinking and it is FUCKING pissing me off (I’ve been to 2013 in Arenas). All of this bullshit coupled with a Vanish that doesn’t work and DPS that is lower than that of many Hybrids (FUCKING HYBRIDS VS PURE) makes for an excruciatingly difficult and frustrating playtime.
Comment by w3tww1lly — February 18, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
yeah i know its just starting to get ridiculous. Rogue nerfs have been on every patch, and like you said hardly anything is happening to DKs Pallys warriors Ect…
voted for you 3 times in round 1 and 2
Comment by Kubane — February 18, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
Yup yup, they had better be working on some nerfs for other classes or at LEAST buff up rogues’ survivability, I mean back before WoTLK came out, rogues weren’t the best, lol, but they could take some damage before dying or whatever. Now rogues get two shotted by almost every class and then they nerf our DPS…. right. If we don’t have survivability, at least buff our damage out put to were it belongs, or balance the two where it was before Wrath came out.
Comment by Aggrø — February 18, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
all these recent changes makes me wana stop playing WoW at all, Merciless season was the Best ever in this game, most balanced and most fair , game ended in season 2, and full end was when DK’s came.
Comment by Cryo — February 18, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
Man, I don’t know if I can adjust to these changes. If dk’s and hunters don’t get some nerfs too, I might have to reroll one. I hate to do that since I put so much work into my rogue, but geez.
Comment by omegatrigun — February 18, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
Ok i have to post something about this. The main reason i respeced for combat pve is because of the insane burst of Retardins, Hunters, Deathknights, and the occasional mage. THE WHOLE POINT OF A ROGUE IS TO KILL SOMEBODY DURING A STUN. Rogues were made to be quiet, quick and effiecent, but being WTFOWNEDIN3SECSBYARETARDIN is even more rediculous then the what is it, 10? 12? seconds that its possible to keep somebody in a stun (-Dr’s of course). Whats even more rediculous is the, “If someone literally has almost no response for your attacks then that is not skill that is allowing you to win matches (and I am not just talking to rogues here).”. Ok Seriusly, REACT FASTER thats the only way around this, you cant just nerf a class down everytime people dont know how to adapt faster, its rediculous, but whatever blizz is going to do whatever the fuck they want regaurdless of what we say, so im done, thanks for your time RogueRogue.com
Comment by Hippy — February 18, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
Rogues getting the /nerf is the MOST bullshit idea Blizzard has come up with. From Pre-BC through WOtLK every patch there is some kind of homosexual nerf.
I only really began playing Mut seriously in WotLK, and I find it the BEST spec ever. Either that or I just recently started paying attention to my DPS…
But we always come stabbing right on back! However, the “new” Overkill nerf, the “new” HfB nerf….all lame as my gf.
My own personal thoughts on who is responsible for these nerfs? Thats easy. The R&D guy at Blizzard HQ plays a toon that is getting the assbeatin’ from a Rogue/Mage in Arena, so as his own way to get back on the peeps whoopin’ his ass he gets his team to /nerf the Arcmage and Rogue…again and again until Akrioss stops whooping his ass…however, according to Eviscerate Arena III…Akrioss still tops!
All in all guys, the nerfs are screwed up and sometimes w/o any principle or direction, but we have always found some way around it. Some OP trinket/buff, our time will come.
Comment by Faeyna — February 18, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
It’s the class playstyle that fuels this hate and always will be like that. It’s our ability to attack whenever we think is optimal for us and our ability to flee at will when things go wrong. That annoys people too much. Because they want to get their revenge but sprint / clock / vanish prevents that.
I’ve seen rogues ambusing 5% cloths and then go /spit on them. That is not skill and mocking the other just fuels the hate. I’ve seen rogues performing vanish into cheap shot to people in greens that are already down to 10% from the initial CS into KS stunlock in BGs (in arena everything is allowed, the cheaper you play the better for you). What is the meaning of this? Just give him at least the chance to hit you once, it will make him feel better and he will QQ less on the forums. To sum it up our cheap tactics will always make us the number one hated class in the forums, I believe we could be a tad less cheap especially in BGs to try to avoid that.
Comment by ZeJunkie — February 19, 2009 @ 1:46 am
When you look at the game it got worse and worse with every Add-On coming. In 10 patches there were at least… 4-5 Rogue nerfes?
I say Blizz just have to do something with ShD applying an extra bar or something that overtakes the bindings in the normal one.I see tha combat specc as the TBC shadowstep-outlast specc. Since you cant get above 1k resilience without losing ridicioulus DMG the new Cheat Death will be Nerves of Steel. If Blizz would buff the burst for HARP a bit and the shit****ing Bars on ShD we could change to any Specc we’d want.
But I still don’t know why they think Huntards are not overpowered in Arenas…same as DK, Pal or Feral ( these classes take the most skill obviously ).
The only thing I’m excited about is the Dual Specc.
Comment by Zàck (Azshara-EU) — February 19, 2009 @ 2:15 am
No, a rogue nerf WAS necessary. I don’t have a problem with getting nerfed. I didn’t have problems getting nerfed in any patch except when: the nerf kills an entire spec (HARP, ShS)or only one of many classes gets nerfed (like now). And I don’t like getting my talents changed (/wave @ macestun) when other classes GET to keep or actually GET things like that. As in impact proccing (off of armor, completely ridiculous), blackout and now also TnT.
And while we’re at it: why the hell is cloak only 90%? Why the hell does lolgrip of the dk not only ignore cloak but also gets us out of vanish? Why the hell does the mage pvp tree (frost) get a fireball procc? What’s up with blackout?
Comment by Zoëphobia — February 19, 2009 @ 4:34 am
Yeah, at the end I meant nightfall.
Comment by Zoëphobia — February 19, 2009 @ 5:11 am
Yea . Last patches from blizz are totaly bullshits :X
Comment by Killingblow ( Drak Thul ) — February 19, 2009 @ 7:37 am
I feel dipressed. I dont know what to say but I think its gonna be a hart time 4 rogues. I’m playing with the thougt to end my time in wow.
Comment by Shiroo (nethersturm) — February 19, 2009 @ 9:39 am
Relax…don’t quit just yet. Even though these have been very crippling nerfs, and mind-numbing to even think about; are best days are still ahead. Patch 3.1.X is already in the works; they’re just crunching some numbers here & there, and you’re good to go. Just chill and wait. Instead of paying $15/month; signup for the 6-month plan. The 12-month & 24-month plan is available, and as an added bonus for the “FIRST” 5000 customers who take advantage of this great offer, you get a FREE WoW authenticator! During these tough economic times you’ll want to stretch your entertainment budget. So play WoW and bring your friends. After all the raids, ratings, rankings, titles, we’re all just part of the WoW Family…together as one.
Comment by Jack Vanderstout — February 19, 2009 @ 11:34 am
Agree’d! I work 2 jobs and for the moment I’m financial stable. But who knows what the future brings. I still have to be very wise with my spending. When you play WoW, you get so much content for so little money. All the deals they offer and bonuses you get; you can’t so no to such a great deal. I will definitely being signing up for those offers.
Comment by Oskar Smith — February 19, 2009 @ 11:42 am
I’m just thankful that there is company like Blizz who gives so much to its WoW community and ask for so little(if any). The pricing for other forms of entertainment are just too much right now. But playing WoW gives you the same satisfaction for very little money. All the other MMO’s are just too expensive and don’t give you what WoW can give; which is great entertainment for only a few cents a day. Thanks to Blizz/Activision, we are forever grateful.
Comment by Jane Jenkins — February 19, 2009 @ 11:48 am
Fuck it, if I see more Hot Streaks / instant fireballs for frost, blizz owes my mutilate specc 2 free ambushes each shiv.
Comment by Lulzmachine — February 19, 2009 @ 1:02 pm
Crippling Poison now has a PvP duration of 10 seconds.
Wound Poison now has a PvP duration of 10 seconds.
The Rogue ability Mutilate now does its appropriate damage based on talents.
I dont see big problem on the nerf of the poison but i think if they nerf it should do something about the ice chain of DK i mean they can spam it at range…and apparently mutilate will be nerf once again
at least i cant beat a DK 1vs1… idk if is me but is too hard when u are leave in arena with one without CD and he is at 10% HP and he just put u chain and send the pet to screw u up and Death Coil until u are death…
Comment by Voruc — February 19, 2009 @ 2:35 pm
mhh… why they nerfed us everytime?! And the paladin?… they could kill us whit 2 hit and they are immortal. I think that one of the Blizzard creator’s son have a pala and one they in pre-WOLTK one rogue has shooted him.. and so..
Comment by Cortx — February 19, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
And the next one:
# Crippling Poison now has a PvP duration of 10 seconds.
# Wound Poison now has a PvP duration of 10 seconds.
Comment by meat — February 19, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
god…common blizz i am sick of your damn choices why just tell me why ?u think we are OP becouse u cant see us in the begining of the damn arena is that the OP well ok …if u think i have OP DMG how about u make a rogue put it against retri pala try not to have trinket on then second stun and try aloso to suruvive the dps u gonna eat… i have 19k hp AND I AM DING ON 1 5 SEDONDED STUN FFS ARE WE OP ?i will be rly glad if some of the blizz retards sees that poste.
Comment by vesi — February 20, 2009 @ 2:28 am
I think it’s a fucking joke, I can’t beleave they dare to say that they nerfed other classes and now it’s time for Rogues, soon enough they’ll just take away all dmg and make us heal or something because they think Rogue dmg is overpowered. yes, we have KS and cheapshot but look at Paladins and DKs they got stuns too, so as immoratality or 50% dmg red. with stun immunity and alot better DPS output. No mather what Blizz is gonna do to fix this bullcrap I hope they loose alot of people.
Comment by Nonow — February 20, 2009 @ 4:16 am
more nerf to our burst, wich (imo) is the only strenght the rogue class have in todays arena
The lack of survivebility is so extreme today with a rogue, that it simply takes away the possibility (more or less) for a rogue to be really viable in 3s and 5s( 2 or 3 dps can easy kill a rogue in 2 GCD`s)
Ofcourse there will always be people finding solutions and possiblities to get far, but the state of the class today really excludes the rogue from getting the posibility to reach top 5 ranks in any brackets.
Im really not against nerfing todays burst , as it is too high. What i dont understand is the time and place to do so with rogues.
There is without a doubt some few classes today that are very supreme to rogues, and many other classes for that mather. Im ofc speaking of DK`s, Paladins and last but not least Hunters.
To even get some “sort” of balance PvP wice , these classes should be given significant nerfs before touching rogues. ( Ghostcrawler posted :” We have made burst nerfs to Retribution paladins, death knights, Arms warriors, Arcane mages, hunters, Feral druids and now rogues ”
and i totally fail to see when/what nerfs are made to these classes with the exeption to the mage and the arms warriors (fury is still totally viable thou)
If blizzard now are to nerf, then for god sake give us something in return of terms of surveivability . The rogue part in 3vs3 and 5vs5 is basically in stealth since u have to get away again after running touchable for nothing more then 10sec. i bet 90% of all comps in different bracket will benefit from going for the rogue first.
I dont know too many solutions to fix the current state of unbalance in arena exept to give low armor gear more resilience then high armor gear ( more resi on cloth then plate ). as we can see high armor classes are the ones to have the highest advantages today (Palas,Shamans,DK`s,Hunters,Warriors are better presented on top rankings then low armored classes.
Ofc such a change would need small alterings in terms of buffs/nerfs for classes like mages,feraldruids,warriors ofc . but i think classes like locks, priests,rogues,hunters,shamans,paladins,DK`s would benefit from such a change in the right way to balance the game more.
This is just my 5cents ofc, feel free to flame.
Please excuse my english if it is Terribad, im from Norway
want to thank Akrios and Nition with a exellent source for us rogues, keep the good job up!
Comment by Nyluh — February 20, 2009 @ 11:13 am
Our 3% representation on the SK-100 was an obvious indicator of how overpowered the class is. Props @ blizz for realizing that rogues are OP, when not a single person who actually plays the game had noticed.
Comment by Failure — February 20, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
It’s cool when i came back to WoW for WOtLK i was told to level my rogue cuz my warlock would get trained, what the hells the diffrence with my rogue? I get out dpsed by rets and DKs in raids and i get trained over a warlock in arena. what a fantastic change i can’t wait to get hit with exorcism from a pally in 3.1 after eating stun + repentance and watching him bash my face in threw a bubble. Dont forget eating some 9k Shreds/6k bear crits or a 10k Oblit. But i rest assured our burst was nerfed to help the rest of the WoW world see rogues as more of an annoying nussance that must die first because we have stuns almost every class can counter/remove/soak less dmg while sitting in. Man i wish i leveled that ret scrub now id be face rolling a mean macro!!!!
Comment by Selsia — February 20, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
blizzard dont like the class.its clear.they dont like the class ROGUE.they dont want it.they are giving everything to destroy the fame of the class so the new players to have an opinion that the class sucks.and the old players just to have the feeling that i have..im so disapointed.
But the big stupid is not blizzard.the big stupid is me who pays for something i have started to dont like….and im sorry for that but i believe every old rogue that continues to have hope about the class and still pays for that thing blizzard transformed to “new rogue” has no excuse.
Comment by Hawkins — February 21, 2009 @ 8:06 am
Oh goodie. Finally the nerfs I’ve been waiting for. I hate accidentally killing pallys, DKs and hunters when they screw up. Finally I dont have to worry about winning a 1v1 with a plate class. Now i can just /sit and wait for them to kill me with a clean conscience knowing that fighting back is 100% useless instead of just 90%. Ty blizzard for fixing my problems I am eternally grateful.
/end sarcasticrant Fuck you blizz. Reset game to day 1 and start over imo
Comment by Dugalla — February 21, 2009 @ 10:21 am
Just rerolled on my lock =(
Comment by Advi — February 21, 2009 @ 11:26 am
All that hard work for nothing?…best thing to do right now is quit the rogue…or just quit wow all together…maybe ill hop on ma warrior…maybe roll a dk and join the rest of the OP fags wit a pet…
Comment by xtalent — February 21, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
I made this post in the Rogue forums at Wow-Europe.
I have a challenge for the blizzard developers just to prove my sight on the lack of viability of the rogue class in arena today:
first i want to state that Arena SHOULD be base of where balance is being drawed. everyone makes a class well aware of that you wont be able to to have a good chance killing every class/ specc in the game ,Balance should never be made around 1vs1 as this is simply impossible to achieve.
I can get that some people whine about rogues are weak against ret palas DK`s amongst others.but i accept this, as a class shouldnt have the possibility to have a 50% chance to kill every class assuming skill is equalent.
When this is said, let me go on with my “point” of this post .
In the arena tournament several of the RMP teams have recently cancelled , simply because the recently nerfing have made this setup too weak to have a chance to get to the top, fairly enough we can se stats about this on the armory . RMP just doesnt cut it if you wanna reach the top. if this setup cant reach the top , then what teamsetup with a rogue can reach the top 3vs3?
Also… if u look away from the 2vs2 setups Rogue/Rshaman and Rogue / Mage, can anyone please name some setups where a rogue actually can replace (simply be a better choice) another class in 2vs2,3vs3 and 5vs5 brackets achieve top ratings?….because seriously ive been thinking forever about this, and just cant find any.
Is there even any other class that are facing such a lack of viability?
edit : what do you guys think? do i have a point at all?
Comment by Nyluh — February 21, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
let me please add that when i say im fine with ret pallies and DK`s walking over me 1vs1 i mostly said this because i didnt feel like making a total whine post, allthou i believe of the concept of them being better then us 1vs1 ,but atm the gap between the classes 1vs1 is a bit bigger then it really should be.
Comment by Nyluh — February 21, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
I knew it.
Since the day Lethality was nerfed, I predicted to a guild member that this is the first step of destroying the rogue.
First, the low Damage in PVE… then the burst damage… I knew it.
Now Mutilate and the incoming nerfs. Yeah, Blizz is in the mood for swinging the nerf club.
I should reroll to a DK and give him the name: Prophet. Or Fidchell (yeah, .hack^^”)
I love my rogue, trying to give her all sorts of love I can give… clearing the bugging world events,trying to equip to the best I can get, trying to rule the damage meters, the killing meters and the most important thing: trying to have fun with my rogue.
Friends tell me to change the class, changing the Main Char from my rogue to my Heal Priest.
I’ve once said, I will think over changing my Main Char when a Level 1 can kill me with my highend level rogue.
This day seems to come too fast and I should really start to think about which class I should choose>PVP Transfer.
This will NEVER happen! I thought. Blizz will never allow that.
But now, you can see it. Transfers of this kind are now allowed.
Character modifications now too.
I predict, that in one beautiful day, you can create a new Character: Max Level, Reputation to exalted in every fraction (also Aldor and Scryers), highend EQ…
This will someday come!
Well, I know that Blizzard has now lost his focus in the class creation.
Paladins, a class with plate suit, Healing and now a too fine damage.
DKs, a class, which hasn’t really talent tree.
Nearly every class had his trees… for rogues for example, the best tree was for PVE the combat tree, in PVP the Subtlety tree and if you wanted to play PVE & PVP, you could play Assassination for a solid damage.
I miss the concret trees. A DK could tank with every tree.
I think, we will be druidized (Because of the feral tree, one tree to play in PVP & PVE. Cat and Bear are in one tree).
DKs are now the best form of a druidized Class.
Since the nerfing began, I don’t really know my place in the raid.
In BC, I knew that once my equip is equal to my other members, I can easily make it to the top three.
Now, blue equipped Shamans can leave me behind in the damage meters.
I’ve attacked a dummy with mutilate for 20 minutes. 2k DPS, ok, nether bad or good.
Then, I’ve invited a guildmember Shaman, who attacked the same dummy.
After a few attacks, 1,5k DPS. WTF?
Few Seconds after this, 2k DPS… and he didn’t even wanted to stop.
In the end, he went up to 3k DPS and holding it.
After that, I knew, I was done for. A blue equipped shaman does so much DPS and I, once a DPS King… has lost.
I had better Equip then him and lost…
Now, I’m always trying to look at the Damage Meters…
I always fear that I will lose my destinations to other classes:
Damage.
Shamans do better Damage and have a lot of support.
Paladins do now nearly the same Damage and have support.
Hunters still do damage and yes, they are allowed to do this damage, but also have support.
Equal to mages and warlocks.
But only the lil rogue has only damage with nearly no support (ok, we have hemo and tricks of trade).
I don’t want to have supports, that is not the way of a rogue.
Nether I want to have some kind of healing.
What I want is to do damage. Only Damage. No support, no heal, no nothing but only damage.
Soo… end.
P.S.:
A traumatic event, that I will never forget.
3.02 or so, where paladins were IMBA.
A white Damage of a Paladin… 3,2k Damage. No skill, only a swing with this ding dong bada ding da! 3,2k… I sometimes have nightmares about this… 3,2k with a single non skill attack… It haunts me till my death (both of my rogue, when a level 1 will kill me and my real Life death)… 3,2K DAMAGE
Comment by Dante — February 21, 2009 @ 11:17 pm
is it just me, or has 1on1 never ment to be fair?
the whole point of the rogue as far as i understood when i started playing it: melee class, that deals shit loads of damage and has good CC, but is made of paper = if you play well, know when to trinket, and generally get the first stun, rogues are meatgrinded, but if ur unskilled and say, trinket the cheapshot, they will eventually eat you.
i am proper pvp geared, not perfect, not amazing, but good. so when i now face a pala with equal equip, watch him eat all my stuns, all my muti’s, all my evis, my cold blood evis, my restealth, and all over again, and only goes to 33 %, then bubbles and heals… i lose faith in the game. yes, every class in the game is still eatable in 1on1, but thats not the point, in 2vs2 or BG’s a rogue is eatable in one stun by most plate classes. we can do alot to to break CC, cause as we all know, all of the rogues abilities to avoid certain death, like, say, vanish – is working just perfect!!
and now, more nerfs. im not a bad player at all, but i get INSANELY meatgrinded. WTF blizz, why? the whole point of us rogues is that we can eat ppl if we play well enough not to get stunned/unstealthed/whatever. take away everything good about us. thank you.
soon the only thing a rogue has that is wanted in arenas/pve is kick, which will prolly get nerfed with double the CD or summit like that.
dont force me to rerolling DKlol or retardin just to have the least bit of fun.
all the whine is making me dizzy, im out
Comment by kLp — February 22, 2009 @ 2:07 am
kLp, I have lost faith in the game.
I mean, in the past, you were called insame, mad, when you called Paladin and Damage in one sentence. Or Def skilled Classes and PVP.
But now everything has changed.
A Def Paladin/Warrior in a BG who absorbs a lot of Damage but still gives you nice hugs of love.
I mean, hee… it’s all nice and so.
Hunters, who feign death and don’t pay rep cost.
And these classes are the laziest one.
All kind of Aspects, Dragonhawk Aspect for example.
Now the munition of the Hunters will be reduced.
So a Hunter has to pay only foodcosts for Pet. That was it.
And when we are questioning about leveling… autoshoot and pet.
Till the death of the mob, you can go afk.
DKs, a class which you can just hit all the buttons and do damage.
Well… maybe Blizz hates really the Rogue.
Forcing all Rogues to reroll to a DK. Or for something else who can do Damage.
I knew it just from the beginning of nerfing lethality.
Blizzard, what are you thinking? Sorry, I formulated it wrong!
Why don’t you start thinking?
Rogues without Stuns and Burstdamage… what is he then?
Paladins, who can heal, wear plate and do Damage… what do you call then? Godlike Chars?
I mean, hee, I don’t want to have a One Hit Kill Button.
I want to do something.
But my poisons are nerfed too.
Comment by Dante — February 22, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Dante, i take your words to heart.
Ive played my rogue loyally for soon 3 years, and now this happends. How can Blizzard be so blind about Deathknights? Nerf range on Death Grip please?! Or “Hey, your a rogue. Now i have to kill you” 11k Obliterate in the face, while we attempt to get in a 1-2k crit on him.
I HAVE thought of rerolling, but all other classes than Rogue doesnt seem to interest me. Guess i gotta hope that Blizz gets their eyes up and nerfs the REAL dominating classes.
Comment by Granis — February 22, 2009 @ 12:20 pm
Thank you Granis^^.
The love for the rogues came by me when I played Ragnarok Online.
It was a Assassin, playing with Poisons and kill someone without getting noticed that I was in the near of my victim.
When I finally switched from RO to WoW, I wanted to play this theme again. Killing from the darkness, envenom the victim.
Since there was no class in WoW called Assassin, only Rogue, I had chosen him.
Her look should be the same as in the Trading Card Game.
The TCG was the only connection to WoW before I finally could upgrade my PC. It was really funny to play my sweet lil rogue in TCG.
Ingame, the first levels, I was like a little kid.
All kind of Crits, how easily the mobs died… it was a hell bunch of fun.
70, starting to raid with Combat. Of course, the damage compared to the higher equipped guild members wasn’t high, but it was fun.
Soon, my equip got equal to theirs and I started to feel it.
When we finished the instance, I could proudly say:
My part of job was done. Well done, my lil rogue.
Looking at Recount and seeing my damage and DPS done, one of the highest, made me proud.
It told me, that I’ve played well and that the noob of the past days was gone.
My first 5k Crit on a mage in Eye of the Storm gave me a rush of adrenalin.
Doing so much damage to him was cool. I was also happy, that this was avaible to me.
Coming from nowhere and then someone died in the middle of the fight, that was my style.
Ok, he was damaged, but this is wayne. But 5k… omg, that was madness. Btw, it was a ambush for sure I was sublety skilled.
But now?
Can I be proud of my skill?
Can I slap on the shoulder of mine and say “That was my part?”
Nearly every class can somehow stun.
Palas kill me in Stuns… no, it is a single Stun and they do too much damage.
Shamans hex you and prepare their finish move.
Mages sheep you, use Kagebushin no jutsu (Naruto, shadow clones^^”) and then, it starts… 4 mages bam on you.
When I survive one attack, what should I do?
Vanish, trying to get away and heal my wounds?
What will the mage do… wait, AE and then I’m out of stealth.
So, I’m a victim.
Blizz wants to druidize every class… whatever talenttree you got, you can do PVP… ok, I hit with my SS for 950, uncrit.
When I crit, it can go till 2,5k. Only problem, when I crit.
Evi… once I became 73, I got a new rank…
And somehow, Evi has done truely damage. OMG! I loved it.
And now?
Evi hits Mobs uncrit for max 2k, Crits are around 4-5k. Of course with 5 CPs.
I know that the rogue wasn’t optimized for PVE because they were afraid, that it would become too imba in PVP.
So the lack of damage in instances were natural, every class made more damage.
The Pala Buffs… Palas never became oom, made a horrible high damage in instances. I’ve played it till 20… it was too easy.
Getting oom was only possible when I’ve overhealed myself.
Getting oom or better, red in the health bar was impossible.
Of course in a natural fight. It was like a bee, which flew from flower to flower. Too easy. No sitting down for mana nor healing.
Then, the period of the Hunter began.
Volley, Volley, Volley etc.
It was a horrible time, I was really depressed.
I’ve analysed Recount and saw that the Hunter used 45% of his damage only thanks Volley.
And now, the Shamans do too much damage.
I mean, hee, what is so special about a rogue?
He can do damage… ehm, that can everyone else too.
I can heal, wait no, can’t. But a shaman & paladin could heal to, only for a few seconds before getting oom, but they can.
I can support, ehm, wait… Hemo is funny and nice, but then I lose too much damage. Tricks of the Trade… ehm… yeah, a real support, really funny. Nice to use but not a real reason to choose a rogue.
Which class will come after the shaman?
Warlocks? A Chaosbolt for 50k damage? Or Mages, a frost”I don’t need to”fire”think what skill”bolt”I should use”?
I mean, hee, every class gets too easy.
Hunters need no ammo, feint death to escape rep costs, have pet for easy leveling/farming.
This really sucks. A hunter and DK are no skill classes…
What happens to a priest, when he is oom. Used every skill which gives mana back? He is and stays oom.
And a hunter? Changing the aspect, doing for a period of time less damage and then he is full, changing the aspect and go for it.
Is this necessary? Is it not too easy?
Well, I got into some kind of silly Depressions.
Of course, it is about the damage, the reason of my existence.
The solutions are easy, of course.
Learn playing the rogue in PVE, get better EQ.
Easy and it is done.
Ok, my EQ is equip, got nice stuff from naxx 10 and some stuff from the 25 one.
I’ve asked fellas how I could optimize my mutilate and combat skills (nothing new in combat, but I’ve learned a lot in mutilate). Learing is a process which will never end till death.
I mean, hee, I can get skill, get equip… but if the rogue is from the ground up bad because he hasn’t been updated, it hurts.
It is something, I can never change. It isn’t on my hands to do that and I am glad that it is so.
When every class an create themselves, it would end into a disaster.
So I believe, that Blizzard will do this.
They are the gods of WoW.
They can ban us, solve our little problems that lay in the inside of the game.
I know, it isn’t always easy to please everyone.
But now it looks like the love has left.
Everyone knows, rogue weren’t loved by Blizz that much. Compared to the other classes, we are like a bastard. The son and daughters, which weren’t loved because we are illegitimate childs.
I always get angry or/and sad when someone just jokes around my damage what I’ve done.
And I can’t change it.
When everyone is on Naxx 10 EQ Level and they say that the rogues do no damage, it hurts.
It hurts because I can’t change it.
Would it depend on “Hey, you idiot, get better EQ plz, so you can do damage!” then it would be ok, because this would be my fault.
But when my EQ is the same from the origin like theirs, it just hurts when they say something about my damage.
Because I love my rogue.
I am also a sicko.
Everyone is playing/having at least 3 Chars.
I only got a Priest and a Rogue, I’m trying to make a shaman.
Not because he is imba.
It is because my TCG Main was a shaman. And my Twink was a rogue.
My TCG shaman is a main char because when I bought a starter, I hoped in getting a rogue but got a shaman. Also, the TCG is really nice because they don’t nerf skills, lol.
And so, I wanted to continue the tradition.
A Melee, a tank, a healer, a ranged DD. This is/was my dream.
But now, I’m differ from what I wanted to say.
When I ask around, which char gets the main love, no one can answer it. There are a few guys who know it and thus, they try to achieve every achievement.
I mean (i use this word so much?!) I know which one gets my true love.
It is my rogue… my first char, who runs panicly into the portal in HDZ2 because the cautious person said it so (it was a ritual, to diss the newb^^”).
Amazed about the first flight on a flying mount, first epic Item (in my case it was 20, Tabard of Flame) or doing my first looping with the flying mount.
I was proud of my rogue and myself when I killed my first ally…
I feel sorry for all those player, who have lost the love to their first char.
I mean, hee, (again><
Every nerf is a hit against my face. Sometimes, I can understand it, ok. But what now happens… ouch.
But every buff is a sweet bonbon. I don’t wanna get buffed all the times… I want a stable environment.
I want to work for my damage so I can be proud of it.
And now? Obliterate smashes from a fapping DK, a DK has too much possibilites to CC someone… the Death “Get Over here” Grip, Chains of Ice… what else have I forgot?
Ok, he’s new, somehow Blizz has to make him interesting for making him play…
But it isn’t the DK which is the problem… it is the loss of love from Blizzard the rogue gets.
DKs are just loved too much… before that, it was the Hunter, followed by the paladin (3,2k autohit). Next will be Warlocks, followed by watever… at least the bastard will get something… aaww, sorry, all the love got for the other ones, here’s a lolly.
Rogue: hhmmm, tastes good. Mutilate does now 21% damage, tasty.
Blizz: Ok, now that you have your lolly, shut the **** up!
Rogue: But the youngest one has got so much goodies, and the peer sister, ehm, brother, watever paladin has become so much more.
I want to have a lolly, pretty please, ok?
At least please fix my vanish, yeah? It really hurts.
Blizz: Silly one, you got your lolly, so please be quiet.
And for vanish, you know that it is a problem from the server.
And now, go to your corner and stay there?
Btw, paladins… their divine shield should heal them up to maximum. And whem he’s in the bubble, he should make a AoE or debuff, so the enemies around him so they only have the half of their HP? Ok?!
But what makes me fear is one thing for the future:
Diablo 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When they nerf buff the classes in WoW so much, what will happen to this lil one?
Soo… I have a guess.
Rogues are the only men in WoW.
Shamans whine because of Circle of Lol… what happen, a 6 sec CD.
So, if a class whines enough, something happens.
So, since the rogue doesn’t get so much love, ehm, buffs, I guess that this makes us to the real men/women… to an adult class.
I mean, what the hell are they thinking… wait, for thinking, they want money?
GC and his balacing team…
I know, I will make a lot of enemies when I say it loudly:
Racial Traits.
GC and his balacing team have to play alliance, mainly human.
And nighelf and draenei.
I’m from the Horde.
Since 3.0, I’m thinking of that.
I mean, hee, not again, the horde has been nerfed.
Tauren were nerfed, Undeads lost the 5 secs immunity, but only the trolls got a little buff.
And in the alliance?
Nighelfs shadowmeld was a second vanish, Every Man for Himself is something… aaww, I hate killing against humans and gift of the naaru scales with spell or attack power… wtf?
So a draenei warrior has 2 skills whichs allows them to heal… and I’m not counting herbalism.
I mean, a healing warrior… ok, racial trait, fine.
But Enraged Regeneration? WTF? Why?
I know the funny sentence “A warrior with a heal in his range is not getting killed, without he is a joke.”
But why warrior? I mean, the can survive a lot of damage in his plate suit, but me leather junkie, I got nothing.
When I dodge a attack, a good warrior can use his skill… what was is called? You know what I mean.
Warlocks can heal themselve enough but they got haunt… ????
And a priest, the holyness of healing, can’t even cure poison.
Blizz lost his focus.
A Shadow priest there to level the priest or do farming/pvp.
But he was never intended to become a serious Damage Dealer.
A Def Tank was imba in PVE, tanking and stuff, but now in PVP, he absorbs a lot of damage and makes enough damage.
And Blizz said, the shaman should be buffed equal to real damage Dealers… WTF? A Hybrid as strong as me, a real damage Dealer?
I mean, I’m the only one and only damage dealer class.
Hunters, Warlocks, Mages are some kind of hybrids… supporting Damage dealers.
I have really no noteable support… ok, hemo, but then I don’t do any damage, so let’s forget about this skill till it gets buffed and hot.
Tricks of the trade… ehm, yeah. It’s like a hunters mark, staying there for 2 mins… ehm, no, isn’t. Like Int Buffs… no, isn’t.
Like nothing!
But one thing I must admit. I love Fans of Knives. FoK gave me in the first Mob group, those lil spiders, 12k DPS.
That was cool.
Comment by Dante — February 22, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
this rogue i play now id the first char i made and played it cuz i didnt liked anything else, i still dont do so, and now when the whole point of being a rogue is screwed up, look at the WOW oficial site when u get to rogue class there are the words: FOR THOSE WHO LIKE TO DEAL DAMAGE.
well in first ( pre TBC ) this was true but now i only crit muti when its dual crit 4-4.5k on a DK the DK crit oblit 12k in my face with my 18k hp then i wanne reroll but nothing intrests me to play :’( is blizz hates rogues and dont want them just remove them from the game so we wont be tempted to play one and will play cat druid since there better stealthers then rogues are(i think thats insane)
Comment by Clyndamycine — February 23, 2009 @ 2:58 am
Thankyou. Well put and i very much agree. Much of this read by other classes can be blown off as qq party. But this is a good point as much as the other classes dont want to admit it. Rogues piss people off. We thrive off of stabbing people in the back when they are not ready. Why? they cant see us. so nerf nerf nerf.
Comment by Loath — February 23, 2009 @ 7:18 am
less qq/info more pepwewvids pls!
ps. voted!
Comment by Alvis — February 23, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
Loath, your words are formed of pure, unadulterated truth.
Comment by Failure — February 23, 2009 @ 9:10 pm
Shit nerf’d
Well Akrikos i voted for you 3 times:)
Thanks alot for the great site
..
Awzum !
Ty to You two guys !
Comment by Nindera — February 24, 2009 @ 4:32 am
Well, i would like to thank the community of roguerogue.com been here for quite some time under several names. Apparently after tommorow i wont continue to play wow. Blizz looks how to buff noobs and new players. such as DKs and Hunters. Blizz is pressing the GODMODE button on once again for locks. Rogues got no space in the pvp. Arena is fucked up esspecially when u swamp teamm8s.
, i have already deleted all my 3 rogues im drunk and stoned. 4 years now i play this fucking game never been in a more hummiliating spot as a rogue many will say im a noob but when explsive shot is procing for 6k with 650resi i think i got the right to whine 
.
have a nice day and a good life! hope u didnt qqed alot while reading this was a whine post :/
ur maybe the best rogue atm
Sometimes i look back at vanilla and i see how simple things where. ppl where skeels>gear and fuck if u wanted gear u had to raid or melt at pvp. yeah i can say im whining i have never whined b4. But rogues are THE most fun class u can do wtfevah u want when u want it. cant get tired of it. wotlk released rogues where slaughtering EVERYTHING so blizz, imo the did ok, they nerfed mutil, personally i was hoping decay speccs will fall but apparently they wont. Our only survivability was to over dps our opponent and kill him under a vanish and a KS (if they didnt had gear) cause try to over dps a decay dk at 2k+ rating, nop not going to happen!!
Well i think i have whined ALOT
TO all rogues that will continue to play this game: its fucking addictive wasted to much of my time on this lametard game that patch after patch is getting lamer and lamer. Life is fucking awesome, dont waste any more of ur time in this game that prolly already has wasted too much of ur time.
KK NERF ROGUES we DONT have a prob, but FFS nerf some1 else aswell. hahaha laughing cause prolly blizz wants us to reroll to fucking DKs as many they have done. i found DKs the most stupid class to play zero skeels honestly and they say that rogues takes no skeels prolly they have to play first one instead of whine
Fed up with their boring parts of the game. for me that i dont got ONE pve item pvp was imbha especially running around with full deadly but now it was just silly full t7.5 classes was raping me in a instant apparently because pve>pvp gear but kk i can KEEL NOOBS skeels
btw akrios voted for ya either way alot of ppl voted for ya either way!!
Comment by septicx — February 24, 2009 @ 5:24 am
This is bullshit. More instant cast attacks for Survival hunters, good going there Blizz…
Comment by NACHLOLCAPS — February 24, 2009 @ 6:30 am
is even harder, Nerf more than half the damage of mutilate before was 50% and now 20% and is over dk in arena ret paladin and other classes
Comment by Derowen — February 24, 2009 @ 7:33 am
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/2/all/all/all/all/all//////0 nothing more to say – and rogue is op…. no fcking way
Comment by d7n — February 24, 2009 @ 8:56 am
The Rogue is of course OP.
Because he can stunlock you.
And he does a ton of damage, because of this burstdamage.
And don’t forget, they can vanish.
My idea… take away stuns, burstdamage and vanish for rogues.
It’s just unfair that they can do it.
Ok, let’s stop with this.
If the rogue would lose all this abilites, then what is he called then?
A rogue without vanish, burstdamage and stunlocks is like a warrior with 30k armor who dies after a single slap of a trash mob in a raid. Like a mage who can’t cast.
But we are so imba, so OP… Ok, stunlocks can be prevented by insignia, in Arena or BGs. In open PVP, it’s hard to say.
I play on a PVP Server and I’m to lazy to equip myself with a insignia if I’m farming.
So it’s ok when a ally rogue kills me.
But it is just stupid if you play arena/BGs and start to whine because a rogue stun-kill-locks you.
But what have we learned about Blizz?
As long as they get money, they would work!
Charactermodifications and PVE->PVP Transfers were the first steps.
The next step is “Switching Fraction”.
And the ultimate, the last step will be “Create a Character” Project. A Char with max Level, highend EQ from the latest instance/PVP Set, a huge amount of gold, all achievements, all reputations to exalted (also it wouldn’t work), all kind of weapons (legendaries) etc.
Of course, it would cost around 50 – 100$. Or at least 25$.
So, if we want to let them work well, we’ll have do pay them additionally.
Comment by Dante — February 24, 2009 @ 9:27 am
This is complete and utter bullshit what blizz is doing to rogues. I know rogues were top arena dogs back in BC but with DK, Ret Pallys, Wars, and even feral druids (who are tanks lol) we are becoming the bottom of the food chain in melee dps. With the new HFB ablility in 3.1 the rotation for pve mutilate is gonna change big time. I think I am gonna have to go combat to see some benefit from the 3.1 patch. I dont really know about pvp now since I havnt read all the changes can someone inform me? Just about mutilate plz. I have a feel everytime I want to put up over 2.5k dps a raid im gonna have to throw on some swords and go combat. I just really makes me mad that DK and Ret pallys dont have to pay that 50 gold if they want to pve and pvp they can and be good at it. Also it pisses me off that blizz said “We have nerfed ret and dks” bullshit the only nerfs ive seen have been some mage, lock , and alot of rogue. It is sad how someone who wears leather cant do as much burst damage as a toon who wears plate. Its just soo sad.
Comment by Rhyancm — February 24, 2009 @ 9:45 am
8 rogues off the top 100 2’s teams. Thats 8 rogues out of 200 people. But this flows into another issue, the imbalance of damage output versus resil + servivability, as well as the rediculousness of DK’s… But it does say something about the ability’s of our Rogue brothers out there that have, against all odds, still made their way near the top. Bravo to them!
and a side note. I personally have already hovered close to this list, checking in every so often. Armory’ing all these rogues in hopes to discover some uniqueness that sets them apart. With that, id say – take a look guys. there are some very NON cookie cutter mixes out there that could be pushing them ahead. Lets not cry to much – and try and push ourselves to be better. Lets help each other out in some specs. In strategies against classes. etc. Im upset as much as the next guy… im just tryin not to give up on my beautiful and glorious rogue. I still love him to death… i just hope we dont get to the point that i have to play deep combat in arenas. Cause u know how those alliance stand in groups and dont move while i bladeflurry adrenal rush them…
Comment by Loath — February 24, 2009 @ 10:05 am
Glyphs… has someone read all the DK glyphs changes/Additons?
Our tricks of the trade, the “tadaaa” ultimate supporting ability, gives the target 10% more damage… how about gives us 10% more damage? Plus, of course, the tott stuff?
Also, did someone noticed the new HfB glyph?
– Glyph of Hunger For Blood *new* — Increases the bonus damage from
Hunger For Blood by 1% per application.
Ehm… application? Ok, now I know that all kind of developers don’t sit on a round table. They are dispersed all over US.
When Blizz says, next patch plz, they all come together, drink a coffee, play the “Which class becomes now Imba” Game.
Then, they collect all developers ideas/changes, work a little bit on it and tadaa, a new patch is born.
Per application? Means it that every bleeding effect which is on the target, gives us 1%?
Naahh, i don’t think so.
And DKs aren’t getting nerfed.
- Glyph of Death Strike — Increases your Death Strike’s damage by 2% for every 5 runic power you currently have. The runic power is not consumed by this effect. (Old: 2% regardless of runic power)
- Glyph of Plague Strike — Your Plague Strike does 60% additional damage. (Old: 20% additional damage if a disease was on the target)
Glyph of Icebound Fortitude — Your Icebound Fortitude now always grants at least 30% damage reduction, regardless of your defense skill. (Old: Your Icebound Fortitude costs no runic power)
Palas:
- Glyph of Divine Storm *new* — Your Divine Storm now heals for an additional 15% of the damage it causes.
Ehm… I still have the feeling that everyone else gets more and more damage / survivability.
Comment by Dante — February 24, 2009 @ 10:40 am
” Blue posts like this kind of disgust me. ”
This sentence summarizes everything.
Josh
Comment by Josh — February 24, 2009 @ 11:12 am
Latest PTR notes are on Tentonhammer
Rogue
Talents
Assassination
* Hunger For Blood: No longer stacks. Damage bonus changed to 15% for a single application. Requires a bleed effect active on the Rogue’s target. No longer removes bleeds from the Rogue.
Combat
* Adrenaline Rush cooldown reduced to 3 min.
* Killing Spree: Now also increases all damage done by the Rogue while active by 20%.
* Savage Combat improved to 2/4% increased damage against poisoned targets.
* Lightning Reflexes reduced to 3 ranks for 2/4/6% dodge and 4/7/10% melee haste.
Subtlety
* Shadow Dance now opens a new action bar when used.
There notes in regards to other classes as well
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/64545
I still dont see a whole lot of nerfs for the Pallies, DKs, or Hunters though. But some potentialy interesting talent tree changes to those classes though. We’ll have to wait and see how they shake out.
Comment by Edondia — February 24, 2009 @ 3:23 pm
unfortunally im totally agree whit you all guys. I play my rogue since i’ve started to play WoW. Im a PvP sick and relolled mutilate for Sub long time ago. Pally dont scary me and dks too. To kill them is not only istant damage but all is a question of tactic. We want to speak about warriors tank or druids tank? well i have seriously problem to defeat them or better are impossible for me eheheheh.
Anyway they can nerf us but never can stop us.
I still use shadow dance and is really amazing when i can hit 3x ambush a pally for over 5k or kill a priest or mages with only 2x ambush for over 9k even if you are behind them /crap!
My opinion at moment is the PvP gear suxs cos you have to many choise with PvE euipment. I have tryed to play with 900 resiliance eheheh and this is funny …nothing change mages can hit you for 7k, dks for 5/6k and pally too without problems, and my AP go down from 3700 at 2800 and crit from 36% at 29%.
Waiting for the new patch/nerf i send a big thanks to you guys, great site and great effort.
Comment by bearshunter — February 26, 2009 @ 8:38 am
I see Blizzard want to balance between players not clasess. If you are skilled one and you like rogue that happen. Yes I see Blizzards point, they want everyone be happy, nonskilled playes also can do pvp – so yes they can play with retri and DK which is OP. But when skilled players play with OP class then blizz screw up, that happening already, some DKs and Retris unbeatable. In this case those nerfs makes me laugh – some time I cant stop my self to think about GM’s are playing another game? Don’t we play same game?
Comment by Khr — February 28, 2009 @ 7:42 am
As some of you said – the problem isn’t really the nerf, because it requires more skill to play the nerfed class after it which means more fun. Still now I remember a green lock on EU Rogue forums saying “I hope you all get nerfed to the ground, so that you will not even be able to kill a rat!”
Hope Blizzard aren’t tossing a coin to decide which posts to look at as it seems like they are ignoring serious posts and listening to green geared whiners.
I’m sure things will change over time but for now – we are going to be ****ed up by every 100 resi nab in arena…
Comment by Acyra — February 28, 2009 @ 3:05 pm
Ok, from a new user standpoint, when ifirst got the game, rogues cought my eye, and i’ve been learning of them ever since.. From this page alone, i will tell you what it does to new rogue players such as myself.. DEMORALIZES us… i have lvl 36 rogue – and since i heard about the nerf, i’ve begun a couple characters, but still everyday i push on with my rogue. Saying, things must look up.. As an inscription/herbalist, i’m hoping these glyphs take us somewhere, and with dual specs, maybe we can regain our reputation.. But to the wise lvl 80 rogue – to a still learning my character lvl 36 rogue – what advice can you tell me? Switch to DK at lvl 55? Thats one of the reasons i’m still pushing on with this character is the idea that i can still switch i guess. Say things get real bad, someone mentioned a re-roll – to me, that sounds like starting over with the same talent points but with a different class? im sure blizzard would charge for something like this? But for now i will still push on, i havn’t bought the new addon, only up to the last one, i see it as why spend the money, how is being a lvl 36 and having the newest addon going to help me AT ALL? This is jhust the feelings of a freshly started, leveling, and trying to figure out what the hell to do, noob rogue. We are demoralized and confused. What should i worry the most about? What should i concentrate the most on? Thanks.
Comment by TheDonP — March 3, 2009 @ 4:09 pm
just dosent seem right any pally,hunter, or dk can hit 2k with naxx 10 man epics. i mean i get keilled within the 1st 2secs of comeing out of stealth. blizz what the hell are u thinking? i kno every1 bitches when there class gets nerfed but come on this is a joke! maybe its time to switch over to darkfall. aleast they listen to there players instead of giveing them the same BS.
Comment by stuns45 — March 3, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
[quote] So let me get this straight. It’s ok for a ret pally to kill me in a hoj. It’s ok for a deathknight to obliterate me for 10000+ and a hunter to kill me in a tnt stun, all classes with higher survivability than rogues. It’s ok for a pally to burst heal for a players entire health bar without ever casting and never go oom, but rogue damage is too ridiculous. Blue posts like this kind of disgust me. [/quote]
L2Read patch notes before QQ about the well deserved nerfs the Rogue class is receiving. A Hunters TNT stun gets removed! And if you got killed while being randomly chain stunned, L2Play.
A Hunter has more survivability then a Rogue!? Seriously? GTFO. A Rogue doing 4k crits and a ton of 1ks in a row while the oposite player cant do jack shit about it requires no skill at all.
To quote my most favorite quote of the year.
[quote]If someone literally has almost no response for your attacks then that is not skill that is allowing you to win matches (and I am not just talking to rogues here).[/quote]
Congratz,
Comment by Huntard — March 12, 2009 @ 1:13 am
uhm.. i don´t rly see why blizz won´t nerf all classes so that the arenas / duels can last atleast 4 min instead of 4 sec…. srsly… as “the Fat Cow” said: If the pvp in TBC had HIV, the PVP in WOTLK clearly as hell have Aids..
Comment by Spix — March 13, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Нужная тема, добавлю ка в избранное
Comment by Герман — April 16, 2010 @ 2:18 am
В принципе, написавший кошерно написал.
Comment by Стегнов — April 28, 2010 @ 5:12 am
Не спорю, неуместная заметка
Comment by факультет туризма — May 18, 2010 @ 12:43 pm