This is an update to the level 70 mutilate raid guide. Although I believe this to be currently accurate, the information provided is subject to change.
Links:
Music - Wasted – Andy Duguid featuring Leah
Some things to note about this guide:
- Using cut to the chase to refresh SnD with less than 2 global cooldowns remaining on SnD can be dangerous if your expertise and hit rating are lacking because your finisher can be dodged. If you get a lot of dodges and don’t have the best gear, consider doing your envenom at about 3 seconds left, so that if it gets dodged you’ll have enough time to preform another. If you are unable to refresh SnD with your finisher, simply use the combo points on SnD and continue your cycle.
- Envenom vs Eviscerate is still something that isn’t defnite. I personally feel envenom is superior but if you are adamant about using eviscerate, the guide still applies in the same way. Simply sub out envenom for eviscerate. As well, if you are forced to refresh slice and dice and don’t have many deadly stacks, you should be eviscerating. This should occur rarely.
The basic principles of raiding as mutilate
- Keep up hunger for blood, and renew it as late as possible
- Keep up slice and dice, renew it late with a finisher
- Do finishers at 4-5 combo points
- You don’t need to spam abilities, you can let your energy regen
- Your second finisher after envenom will be rupture. As specified in the video, this does not mean that you simply envenom finisher then rupture finisher every time. You might not be able to rupture during one set of a cycle, which is fine. Rupture should be used when you have sufficient energy and global cooldowns to maintain HfB and SnD via cut to the chase after using rupture, mutilate x2 and a finisher
- Your first slice and dice can and should be as few points as possible because it will be refreshed with your finisher
What happens if your cycle gets messed up? Realistically HfB will fall off sometimes, and when it does you have to restart the cycle. First restack hunger will keeping up snd with finishers. If snd also fell off, get HfB back up before getting a slice and dice up.
If you have vanish up when your rotation gets muttled, be sure to use it here in order to have overkill dampen the blow of the energy cost in re-stacking HfB
Why get vigor?
I find vigor to be much more valuable in a raid than the extra point in ruthlessness. In any scenario where you can regenerate energy past 100 (downtime where you can’t attack, or as shown in the video this gives you more time to regenerate while HfB, Rupture, and SnD all have sufficient time remaining). I doubt you’ll find a "right" answer here, but if you feel that vigor is wasted then feel free to put the other point in ruthlessness.
I want to make it clear that this is a preference. Ruthlessness will be more static damage than vigor, especially on stationary encounters like patchwork or gluth.
Master Poisoner?
If you have a crit buff in the raid (ie. ret pally) then get turn the tables instead.
Why go mut when HaT is so good right now?
It’s a bugged spec that won’t be this strong after it is nerfed.
Related posts:
Hey, as much as i like mutilate, i gotta correct u, HaT is super strong now with the bug, but still strong without the bug (meaning, if u are not in a group with another HaT Rogue)
So HaT will be viable and strong after the “nerf” which aint a nerf, but a bugfix, a necessary, but not one that kills the spec.
Comment by Fated — December 17, 2008 @ 9:42 am
I never said HaT would die in pve, but it won’t be so greatly superior to other specs
Comment by Akrios — December 17, 2008 @ 10:29 am
great video!!! I learned a few things that I cant wait to apply to my next raid…keep up the great work!!!
Comment by Violentpast — December 17, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Nice work! <3
Just one question: Are you using an addon that refreshes HfB automatically ?
Comment by Inket — December 17, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
nope
Comment by Akrios — December 17, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
Hey Akrios, great guide! One thing I wanted to mention that there is currently a bug with offhand mutilates that proc poisons. They are currently double procing, so faster offhand is theorized to be better until it is fixed.
Comment by Pessimist — December 17, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
Is PvE mut better than combat now?
Comment by Solution — December 17, 2008 @ 5:05 pm
Akiros
I want your music library, hit me an email with the title of the songs you got!!!!!!!
RAWR!!!
(Not sure you get to see my email) jaymeze@gmail.com
The 51 spec in assasination is great for us raiding rogues where the finisher refreshes SnD…. great work Akiros
Comment by james — December 17, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
Just a quick comment. HfB can fall off but there is no reason for it to unless you are cc’d out of the fight (webs on maexxna being an example). I recommend that if you use boss mods, make sure you are watching those timers and refresh it prior to the spell whether you need it or not. Usually your energy will have regenerated by the time you can attack again so the energy cost is not high. If I see a spell like that coming i also pool energy and refresh SnD, situation permitting. So pool energy, HfB/Envenom to refresh everything and then reattack with almost full energy once webs or w/e has worn off.
Any fights with transit time are also prime times to refresh HfB since you are removed from the target anyways. An example would be Loken in HoL. Refresh as you run from nova. Basically anytime you can’t be hitting the boss and are energy capped as a result, HfB should be constantly refreshed (imo).
Comment by Choopster — December 17, 2008 @ 9:58 pm
I was just thinking.. Isn’t evi better to use as a finnisher than envenom? cause if you use evi, the 5 cp of deadly poison will tick all the time as you just refresh it with another deadly procc.. Sounds like better dps imo, but im not sure tho ^^
Comment by Acronical — December 18, 2008 @ 2:57 am
Didnt meant 5 cp, but 5 stacks of deadly.. btw awesome site, keep it up! would be great if you responed
Comment by Acronical — December 18, 2008 @ 3:20 am
Why have a fast dagger in main hand? should i have a slow one i main hand for pvp?
Comment by Myginion — December 18, 2008 @ 6:06 am
Maybe because this is 100% about raiding and not pvp?
Comment by Hogg — December 18, 2008 @ 6:13 am
I mean why have a fast one in main hand when a slow one makes more muti damage
Comment by Myginion — December 18, 2008 @ 7:45 am
Myginion, this post is about PVE not PVP, the reason you use fast weapons is because it works better with HfB. You won’t be hitting HARD muts, but you will be hitting a lot faster.
Slower Weapons work better in PVP for burst dmg as they have a higher top end dmg and will make you hit harder each hit, but not as fast.
Also, Acronical, The reason you use envenom and not evil is because it ignores armour and, with HfB spec you will be proccing deadly poison all the time so it’s pretty much always up anyway.
Comment by Domje — December 18, 2008 @ 7:57 am
Well I am neraly using the same rotation, and nearly the same build just a few differences. Anyway I prefer not to use rupture at all, since its dmg is not that high. I would like to see some buffs for that in the future. I am using my combo points for Evi and for Env. When I have 4-5 CPs and 5 DPs on target I am using Env, but when I don’t have enough DPs I simple use Evi.
I agree with the fast daggers for pve. Poisons are a bit different for me: DP on MH and WP on OH (fast OH weapon of course).
I was testing different poison setups on dummys and found this one the best.
Btw realy good job Akiros! Keep it up!
Comment by Moonkiss — December 18, 2008 @ 8:36 am
Which Combat Text do you use?
Comment by Dress — December 18, 2008 @ 10:24 am
Hi ,, what speed its best inn off hand and main hand ? for Multi Pve ?
Comment by Poizn — December 18, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Hey, how much would raiding in PvP gear (Gladiator) make your DPS worse? I am the guy that goes 70% PvP and 30% PvE, so I won’t be having a set of raid gear. Also, would using 42 points in Mut greatly impact your DPS in raid?
Comment by Ghost — December 18, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
Hi Akiros,
first of all: great guide! Thanks for that
Then, just one little question: Which glyphs did you use? Or is the choise of the glyphs unimportant?
Greetz Ashvin
Comment by Ashvin — December 18, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
Akiros can ya tell me yar stats (crit,hit,ap,exp) unbuffed
Comment by Hellsflash — December 18, 2008 @ 5:13 pm
Becouse i wounder how much crit do i need to do veary good dps at the 80 lvl raids
Comment by Hellsflash — December 18, 2008 @ 5:18 pm
wouldn’t it be better to take 3/3 unscrupulousness instead of +10 energy?
in our guild we’re talking about that since a few dweeks…
I think it’s just to burst
Comment by Mira — December 18, 2008 @ 7:39 pm
For PvP mut:
So get imp evis for pvp mut or not?
Also what glyphs besides glyph of vig?
Lastly, focused attacks or imp kidney shot? And why?
Comment by Xeros — December 19, 2008 @ 5:26 am
Fated said hat worked in groups w.o other hat rogues, i disagree, a Mut rogue will out dps a hat rogue w.o any other hat rogues in the group, hat is good but its only good in 25 mans or anything with Another hat rogue, so you are depending on another person for your dps to be good
Comment by kubane — December 19, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
great guide but youre pvp videos are better
for those (funny) questions, you need to have 2 fast daggers well actually depending on weapon stats specially dps but the faster the better couse poisons do insane dmg right now the faster weapon the more procs and IP goes always on the faster 1 couse it does huge dmg way better than WP.
envenom > eviscerate thats pretty clear couse envenom now givs that nice buff incereasing chance to appl ypoison so deadly stacks up in notime, not using rupture?? oman well with glyph and talent and 2piece t7 bonus its all about rupture so use it youre wasting a lot of time from SnD refreshing it like every 10second so use rupture just like Akrios.
Finally on HaT who the hell want a playstyle where you just spam finishers??? well thats challenging…the most fun about the new mutilate (actually it was pretty fun before 3.0) is that you really have to watch those buffs/debuffs and time everything correctly, if you can do this nicely then its really rewarding.
Comment by deegy — December 20, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
Hey, great video, definitly nice to know the cycle. I’ll be levelling my rogue up soon, he’s 46 right now and at 50 I’ll be going to mutilate. I’m combat, after respeccing (he’s so old my spec was when I didn’t know anything about talents or whatnot). I’m tempted to jump to Assassination right aweay as combat is boring. could you give me any hints? Or better yet, instructions on how to level as mutilate would be nice.
Comment by Sarbiton — December 20, 2008 @ 2:29 pm
I know it’s totally off-topic but, I didn’t know where to ask.
I have around 500~600ms latency all the time, do you guys think I’ll be able to do some serious arena?
Comment by Clow — December 20, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
Arena? no. Raid? not well.
Comment by Ben — December 21, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
I’m not trying to be ignorant, but what is the HaT spec and what doe HaT stand for? Thanks
Comment by Paloras — December 21, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
Damn it! Imba Akrios! thx for the guide from Spain
Comment by Mythz — December 21, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
Paloras the HaT stands for Honor Among Thieves, its a 40 point talent spec in the subtlety tree.
Also Clow please never do arenas. Though if you are gonna raid with that high latency go combat swords/fists you will turn out much better dps.
Comment by Cheech — December 21, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
This is a great guide but one part is actual misinforming. Taken straight from the Pocket Guide to WotLK from Elitist Jerks there is an update that is pertinent to which weapons with what poisons should be where:
“Mutilate dagger speeds and poisons changed due to recent evidence that Mutilate has two chances to proc the offhand poison. It is now more preferable to put the faster weapon in the offhand with IP. ”
Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/
Hopefully you can update your video without too much hassle.
Everything else looks great! Keep it up.
Comment by Etc — December 22, 2008 @ 3:44 am
ok im just gonna say this, instead of fleet footed……quick recovery
Comment by vath — December 22, 2008 @ 5:53 am
thx for sharing the dps cycle, but i cant enjoy the lv80 talent right now, coz the Chinese service is at 3.05 path. so i wanna know about that for the 3.05 path, should i use the 51 10 0 talent or 44 17 0 the combat mutilate? 5 crit is fine for me~~ the attribute of my character is 2017 ap 28%crit 286 hit rating for deep combat hammer
Comment by Vesh — December 22, 2008 @ 11:48 am
oh ~~~i mean in pve~~~THX
Comment by Vesh — December 22, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
vesh – this is what i used at lvl 70 for 3.0
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIzAo0xZhb
Comment by mrninja — December 22, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
well thanks~i will try this talen tonight ~are you use the double faster dagger or faster on MH and the slower on OH?
Comment by Vesh — December 22, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
oh~~! I’m a chinese player.
it’s better than Sharp?
Comment by nick — December 23, 2008 @ 2:10 am
vesh – depends on your daggers… if they are of similiar dps, two fast daggers are better, if you have one fast and one slow, put the slow in mainhand and fast in offhand, deadly goes on main, andd instant on off
Comment by mrninja — December 23, 2008 @ 5:40 am
mrninja~~~WELL ~~after the testing~the 51 10 0 talent dps is around 1300~and the 51 5 5 DPS around 1200 because i test on dummy maybe it will perform better than 51 10 0 ~i think~and the faster dagers are better than the slower (means 1.8 ) the posion damage occupy about 30% to the total damage, but ~the mutilate is not suit for some locomotion combat~~the cycle is easy to break~
Comment by Vesh — December 23, 2008 @ 9:42 am
I just wanna say opening up with garrote is stupid. Firstly you have to get behind your target which loses time meaning lower dps. It also means if your unlucky you have to mutilate without a poison applied. I prefer to just start in stealth (to proc overkill) and just shiv out of stealth and begin from there.
Comment by Monoxide — December 23, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
Hey i just have a question and is about glyphs for pve muti…
1.SnD glyph
2.Rupture
3???
i dont know some people said that third one is for vigor, other said that garrote. Can u help me pls?
Someone told me that what is the point of spend 1 point in vigor if u will never be 100% energy in a fight? so whats the point of 100 or 120 energy?
Pls help me with this info.
Thank you a lot.
Comment by Deadknife — December 23, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
i use vigor as my third, atm pve muti doesnt have a ‘must have’ 3rd glyph, so its all up to how you play, while specced muti, i dont use an actual opener, i mutilate instead.
there are plenty of times off target in boss encounters to pool energy, so the glyph has use. I also find good use of it due to overdrive and openers at the start of an encounter or vanish and overdrive after time off boss/pooling
Comment by mrninja — December 23, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
If you’re using the Vigor glyph that gives an additional 10 energy if you specc for Vigor it might be wise, and another thing with the quick weapons as raid muti: HfB damage will turn out really well with quick hitting weapons, also the poison application will work out way better with quick hitting weapons, I think with the Eviscerate glyph it will be best to choice Eviscerate instead of Envenom as renewer. Atm im using glyph of vigor, glyph of eviscerate and glyph of rupture. Usally using rupture when i have combos over
Comment by Vic — December 23, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
since wotlk i have had some trouble getting back to the top of the dps meter. any tips. great spec btw
Comment by mollo — December 24, 2008 @ 4:07 am
And yes i must agree on that, some fights also involes movement (like grobbolus poison injection) And under that time you’re energy will be restored, therfore: 20 energy is better than 10
Comment by Vic — December 24, 2008 @ 4:47 am
In my view why it’s hard to compete with other classes atm is cause we have serious hit rating problems now in the start.
And it may be wise to ‘roll’ around with Turn the Table talent, 6 % More crit with all combo moves as muti. But mainly cause we lack hit atm, i think the cap is like 755 and the poison cap is 255 and ‘real deal’ attacks such as SS, hemo, muti requires about 125 I think. Wait and upgrade you’re gear and you be there in no time !
Comment by Vic — December 24, 2008 @ 4:49 am
dude i want all ur ui, text everything, give me names please
Comment by cetlysm — December 25, 2008 @ 2:29 am
I saw someone ask about fast weapons, with a reply that it is due to poison damage. That is correct, but another reason fast weapons are good as mutilate is the synergy with focused attacks, i.e. more crits = more energy regen. As rogues get up in the 40% crit range + all the haste out there and with fast daggers, I think you will start seeing Mutilate really shine as a raid spec (more so than now anyways).
Comment by Choopster — December 26, 2008 @ 7:40 am
Please confirm this – What DPS do you get unbuffed at the target dummy?
Comment by Babamaru — December 26, 2008 @ 11:36 am
hey! I was just wondering what that 5 dosses envenom warning mod was?
Comment by Mel — December 26, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
#43. deadknife
SnD glyph seems overkill since you’ll refresh it with envenom/eviscrate every now and then.. but that is just my theory.
Comment by myacc — December 29, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
So which weapons are THE best? would help to know what to shoot for, pve / pvp.
both sets would be nice to know
Comment by Mikuchan — December 29, 2008 @ 5:41 pm
Hey, nice video, and sorry for my bad english, but can you tell me why fast daggers are better than slow? i know that you are getting more energie with fast daggers, but i think if you use slow daggers, multilate will do much more damage and (ok, thats hard in english-.-) 30%faster are more at daggers with 1,8 speed than with 1,3/1,4. So the white damage will be much more too. I also tested it, and i make more damage with the faster weapon in the offhand and the slower in the main. I dont know if i do something wrong, but can you tell it me please?
Comment by Pidder — December 31, 2008 @ 5:48 am
yeah~~after i’ve adapted the muti talent, my DPS with all buff reach 2500DPS fighting on the fourth boss of BT, and i wanna know, how the AP affect the damage of poison. as when i applyied the ffourth tier of deadly poison and the special effect add AP so ~is there any change of applying the fifth tier of deadly poison or it may affect the total damage of deadly poison make?(the same situation on the wound poison) btw~after testing at the dummy the damage of deadly poison is higher than wound poison~~at path 3.0~
Comment by Vesh — January 1, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
hey pidder i’ ve test three types of dagger and i found sloer on MH and fast on OH, the DPS is nearly to the double faster daggers. what’s more using fast dagger can increase the poison damage but losing a little damage of muti. on the other hand using double faster daggers can gain more energy by the effect of focused attacks, now i am 4 Tier6 using the daggers of hyjal commit’s first boss
Comment by Vesh — January 1, 2009 @ 2:29 pm
http://b12.photo.store.qq.com/http_imgload.cgi?/rurl4_b=d0cdf317085df9c8c02eda312a58fa204510ee5afade0cc8475e3fae45675de8598b7355c9a9d4f9ee327f05914a5126f7c19709cd779c8dda78e6761a69b1656efb066abd892457ed5a9e9ef2f2d4d47451693c double slower
Comment by Vesh — January 1, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
the finish is eviscrate
Comment by Vesh — January 1, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
Hey, great video, but I was wondering, how are you working cold blood into your rotation? Should I be using it on Envenom or Mutilate?
Thanks.
Comment by Tzil — January 2, 2009 @ 7:00 pm
when the hunger of glood and SnD remainS 18S“then you can save some energy about 80 energy and than use vanish and double muti and a cold blood Envenom
Comment by Vesh — January 3, 2009 @ 8:59 pm
you say that i should go with a fast offhand and mh as mutiliate in pve.
currently i have [Knife of Incision] as mh and [Rolfsen's Ripper] in oh
and yesterday i got [Omen of Ruin] which has 1.5 speed, should i use it as mh or off hand?
Comment by rassle — January 4, 2009 @ 7:19 am
I liked the Vid very informative for ppl getting into raiding, just a few things though. One they never said they would be fixing the HaT “bug”, just closely watching it. Secondly I do believe mute is the strongest raid dps besides hat atm, though combat fist/dagger is strong with it. And was wondering how you guys felt on the refresh for HfB do you do it every 23 secs or try to get much dps out of it as you can and save the refresh fro 29 secs? Things are still buggy and some times the refresh dosent get renewed and you waste 60 energy. But I was wondering how you guys feel about this.
Comment by Ottah — January 4, 2009 @ 10:15 pm
Great video ! Muti is kinda new to me , now i know abit more about it , how to dps etc
) Thanks ! .
Good job guys , keep up the good work
)
Comment by Erlend — January 5, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
Best Glyphs to be used are Glyph of Rupture, Glyph of Garrote, and glyph of slice and dice, vigor can be substituted for slice and dice.
Comment by ninjaforhire — January 6, 2009 @ 6:58 am
Well considering haste, and speed buffs now in raids. I would say slow daggers are still better then fast ones, i currently use duel anarchy and 90% of fights i am at the speed cap. So fast daggers fail.
Comment by Zenaa — January 6, 2009 @ 6:58 pm
Wow. For someone who is trying out the mut spec for the first time, this has completely changed my game. This site came HIGHLY recommended… for good reasons. Simply incredible!
Comment by Rangrid — January 10, 2009 @ 7:49 pm
Hey, a fellow Rogue here.
But I do think HaT is going to stay the way it is as Ghost Crawler reported that it is not bugged and it is intended to stay this way.
“I will add that some players have wondered if Honor Among Thieves is bugged since the cp can occur more often than 1 sec. In this case, the tooltip is just unclear. When Jimmy the Shaman crits, he cannot “send you” a combo point more often than 1 per sec. But if you have lots of players critting all the time, you can build them up quickly. So Honor is (here it comes) working as intended.”
Just my 2 cents, but if im wrong, please let me know, I am a lover of Combat Builds myself!
Comment by Cory Buckley — January 11, 2009 @ 2:18 am
Any chance somebody could tell me what UI add-ons are used here?
Comment by keith — January 12, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
I think akrios just posted his UI here: http://roguerogue.com/2009/01/12/akrios-wotlk-ui/
Comment by Araphen — January 12, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
Didnt see that — thanks.
Comment by keith — January 12, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
HfB: static 9% increase in damage.
SnD: static 30% haste.
You wanna get HfB up first if it fails? You are nuts. Thats ALOT of energy spent getting 3%, then 6%, then 9%…. meanwhile you are doing 30% less damage and you are worrying about 9%??? Why??
SnD first, then pop your HfB up to snuff as energy permits.
Comment by filamon — January 13, 2009 @ 4:26 am
@filamon
wouldnt stacking HfB before the fight and keeping it up be more efficient? makes sense to me to do it that way, much better to go into a fight with 3 stacked HfB and FULL energy than to stack it during the fight. i’m new to mutilate so correct me if i’m wrong
-Downfall Mok’Nathal
Comment by Downfall — January 13, 2009 @ 8:06 am
As said, stack HfB >> BEFORE the fight starts <> because the fight hasn’t started yet <<.
Comment by dotOrion — January 13, 2009 @ 8:45 am
Oops, lost some text there due to using brackets.
What I said was, stack HfB before the fight starts, you’re not losing out on 30% dmg from SnD because the fight hasn’t started yet.
Comment by dotOrion — January 13, 2009 @ 8:46 am
I always prep HFB x3 before an encounter, open with garrote, hit SnD and evisc to put it up to the 5 dot max. right away.
As far as restoring HFB or SnD first, I would say SnD is priority. However if your hit rating is pretty low, which impacts your auto-attack damage, SnD while making you attack 30% faster, doesnt really matter if most of those auto-attacks are misses anyways. So if your hit rating is very low, I would restore HFB first, then SnD. Otherwise Snd over HFB.
Comment by rupture — January 13, 2009 @ 8:48 am
Having played most of my rogue life as combat, I will say that Mutilate is one of the most intensive specs to play. Your always trying to keep track of SnD and HFB timers. As combat, you really only care about SnD, and since you spec into improved SnD you have more time to look where your going or what your standing in. I have seen Mut rogues die standing in something because they are too busy watching their rotations. I wish there was a mod that allowed those timers to be clearly seen and heard so you can concentrate on living and not necessarily your rotation.
Tank and Spank bosses are what Mut rogues live for, mobile bosses are Mut rogue killers (dps wise). But hands down a Mut rogue vs Combat Rogue on a stationary boss, the Mut rogue will win the DPS war.
Comment by rupture — January 13, 2009 @ 9:17 am
why using a non crit envenom is refreshing SnD since it is not described like this on the talents trees…
Is it the same with evic?
Comment by Lûptis — January 14, 2009 @ 7:49 am
I suggest you re-read the tooltip.
“Your Eviscerate and Envenom abilities have a 100% chance to refresh your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.”
Yes, it works for both Envenom and Eviscerate, and no, it doesn’t have to be a crit.
Comment by dotOrion — January 14, 2009 @ 8:14 am
Rupture,
As well as anyone who cares to read. I have found Rogue Power Bars to be a HUGE addition to the MUTI Rogue’s arsenal. This allows you to keep track of stun, poison, as well as your SnD, HfB, trinkets popped, and all other self buffs on you without having to follow too far a distance off the boss.
Comment by juicij — January 14, 2009 @ 10:01 am
I did that, that i took 2 point in Improved Slice and Dice istead of having 5 points in Precision. Because then there were more time to stack combo points for Rapture.
Then i have 1 point in Vigor and 2 points in Murder. Then i choosed Master Poisiner as Akrios did.
It make me come from betwenn 1,3 – 1,4 k dps to 2,0 – 2,2k dps…
This was unbuffed and agiest Grandmaster’s Training Dummy, which also means that i would do 4% more damage normaly. Because Murder is only 4% exstra damage agienst Humanoid, Giant, Bbeast and Dragonkin target.
Its is my idea that my spec is better, because of Improved Slice and Dice. But i will thank you very much for giving me the idea to change, and showing the spec. I have never seen at HfB and SnD as good attacks.
?? Bad english ??
Comment by Gryden — January 14, 2009 @ 11:30 am
Can you list all your addons ?
I liked the look of it.
Comment by neheru — January 14, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
juicij*** thanks for the MOD reference, I will give it a try tonight as long as the world of WoW stop’s lagging. Very difficult to raid when your latency goes from 265ms to 1400ms and FPS goes from 34 to 4 while in Naxx. Anyone else seeing huge lag in the game on different servers?
Comment by rupture — January 16, 2009 @ 11:42 am
I dont understand what 1.09 means. 2.0 Agility , 1.6 crit rating etc etc, whats this supposed to mean? :-/
Comment by Granis — January 16, 2009 @ 3:14 pm
Hey thanks for the information on this mutilate spec. Helped my damage in raids a lot. Keep up the good work.
Comment by Cyphen — January 19, 2009 @ 3:57 pm
Akrios is right, you must use fast Main hand weapon becaouse of poison procs on the boss or mobs.
Comment by Deadleus — January 21, 2009 @ 5:23 am
Poison procs doesn’t apply more in mainhand based on mutilate(only).
which mean the old fashion way still results in the best dps.
prove me wrong, by math.
Comment by shd — January 22, 2009 @ 4:48 am
Ca u explain the fast weapon in main hand?
Comment by Babis — January 25, 2009 @ 7:33 am
Faster weapon in Main Hand = more poison procs because poison can also proc off of finishers (Envenom, Rupture, your first SnD).
And both weapons have to be fast in general because of Focused Attacks energy regen. Faster weapons = faster (and thus more) attacks = more crits = more energy regen.
(And also more poison procs).
Comment by Aeltyr — January 25, 2009 @ 7:47 am
Hello , Nice vid , i was just wondering..isnt it best to spec the 50% xtra time on SnD , that way u dont have to worry about it falling off , also if u have the glyph of SnD…would be even better , it will last about 30 secs i belive with it.
-Ferotuus
-Hydraxis
Comment by Ferotuus — January 27, 2009 @ 6:45 am
having tried this out with decent gear dagger choice makes a difference..ip on main and dp on off
using webbed death main and murder off im getting around 2.4k on target dummies
swopping them over with murder main and wd off i get around 2.7k … thats providing i dont drop any cycles of course…..
Comment by achyerhoop — February 5, 2009 @ 7:03 am
i was just wondering what you used to change your damage font like that, ive tried downloading your UI but there isnt a SCTD added to it…i know its off topic, but i love how it looks so much i was wondering if you could link me whats used for it, or maybe even post a screen shot of the settings used for it with the addon on even. thanks a lot in advance.
Comment by loveit — February 9, 2009 @ 8:26 am
Hey m8.
keep it up 
Great movie
and love the tiësto track ur using
Comment by Xinga — February 17, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
Yesterday i went in naxx, and i make 4056 dps on patchwek 25, the only problem is that i were at 13° spot on recount, can someone explain me why the rogue on the single target as patchwerk is not the best dps?? first on recoun were a mage with 5060 dps… i hope that in the next patch rogues returns on the first spot in dps on single taget
Comment by Deathname — February 19, 2009 @ 12:39 am
ps: my spec is 51/13/7 from the beginning of wotlk… soz for my english but i’m italian.
Comment by Deathname — February 19, 2009 @ 12:41 am
Deathname, do you keep HfB and SnD up at all times (efficiently)?
Comment by Phil — February 19, 2009 @ 11:16 pm
sure, i refresh hfb at1 sec and snd at2 sec.
Comment by Deathname — February 20, 2009 @ 1:41 am
I don’t see why you say that I should use the faster weapon in my main hand. Could you explaim why i should use the faster in my MH?
Comment by Dunchaz — February 22, 2009 @ 2:09 am
Dunchaz,
faster weapon in MH=more MH hits=more Instant poison procs=more dps.
Comment by Kross — February 22, 2009 @ 10:11 am
Can someone explain to me what the EP for Mutilate table means? I don’t understand what each number represents. Also, i dont understand how the hit caps work. How do we find out what our poison hit cap is?
Comment by corpuz — February 24, 2009 @ 12:42 am
EP are the stats that a rogue mutilate must consider for maximise the dps, i think the most importants are expertise and agi, cuz without expertise u brake very easy your rotation.
Hit cap for poisons is 315 and 214 expertise (26/26), but wow now is a shit cuz a rogue have to consider a lot of stats instead of agility and crit… mage, hunter and other classes can easily reach hit cap and they can go for other stats.
bah, i hope that with the release of 3.1 rogue can have a better dps than now 
For example, lock and mage hit cap is nearly 346, rogue hit cap is 722…
Guys sorry for my english^^
Comment by Deathname — February 26, 2009 @ 3:34 am
There’s a good sticky post on the wow rogue forums about what hit cap you should go for now. I think its about 260 without points in precision. Expertise is not as important. Buff yourself with +Agi when you want both AP and Crit increases, but buff yourself with +AP when you want a higher straight dps increase. Depends on your spec how much crit will affect you.
Comment by Roarck — February 26, 2009 @ 6:48 am
if u are playing combat u can leave expertis cuz surprise attack, but with mutilate 51/13/7 u need a good amount of expertise or u lose ur rotation, then if u have recount u can see that u miss poisons if u are under 315 hit rating so cap hit with 315 hit, then choose another stat. i want to know the combat dps and the best dps with mutilate, atm my best is 4100, but is too low in my opinion cuz mages own us and hunter too
i’ve tried a lot of differents rotation, i ‘ve tried to put expose armor on my rotation, with glyph of expose armor and glyph of rupture, but my damage is the same.
Yesterday i’ve dropped webbed death, and i’m running with WD mh and murder OH, i’ve 330 hit, 18/18 expertise, 3.350 k ap and 32% crit, i’m asking if someone can help me to do more dps on single target as patchwerk. ty ^^
Comment by Deathname — February 26, 2009 @ 9:59 am
You are beast xD
Comment by kakú — March 17, 2009 @ 10:58 am
Akrios, I do well on longer encounters in raids, usually with the boss, but with the short encounters with the mobs leading up to the boss I am not very effective as I can’t generate the combo points fast enough. (I may be a victim of spaming the mutilate key) Do you have any comments of suggestions to improve dps in these shorter fights with lesser mobs?
thanks for the help.
Comment by Jim B — March 20, 2009 @ 8:51 am
what is the addon that he is using for his scrolling combat text? its really cool. and does he use a unitframes addon?
Comment by mordecai — March 25, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
u have a sexy voice :3
Comment by zomgggg — March 25, 2009 @ 7:50 pm
Thx for making the video good tips for me, trying assasin for the first time!!
Comment by Patrik — March 27, 2009 @ 11:19 pm
what is tha addon u use that shows the energy gain and sweet text
Comment by dapen — April 6, 2009 @ 4:20 am
I have noticed alot of rogues use Fan of Knives on trash pulls as i also have noticved the same problem yopu have. The targetr is not alive long enough to build up combo points. Fan of Knives will make your dps look good on the recount addon, but obviously still prioritize in keep HfB and SnD going during the pulls.
Comment by Dan — April 13, 2009 @ 6:10 pm
As of Patch 3.1 stacking up Hunger for Blood before combat is no longer possible. Instead, you open up with garotte, and THEN use Hunger for Blood (eventually you might want to do it even later, as it’s hard to both get to 4 combo points – to refresh Slice and Dice – and waste a lot of energy on your hunger for blood)
Comment by Frageth — April 17, 2009 @ 5:47 am
After 3.1
open with Garotte > hfb > Snd > Mut > Env (to refresh Snd) > Mut > Mut (rupture or envenom) depending on you snd timer.
Alway use envenom or rupture with 4 or 5 combo points (unless circumstances dictate a quick Snd refresh)
It is important to note that any bleed will alow you to refresh your HfB not just one you have initiated.
Get the HfB glyph it adds another 3% overall damage to your HfB ability.
Now I am not claiming to be the best rouge ever or anything but with this rotation i am doing
2700 dps unbuffed on the training dummies and 3500 buffed in 25 mans at the very least it is a good place to start.
Comment by Dazartham — April 17, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
The numbers talked about at 1m 9s… Where do I get them? Are they obtained by utilizing the speadsheet? If not, where can I find out how close I am to having those numbers.
Comment by Chris — April 25, 2009 @ 5:35 pm
great rotation, good tips, thanks for this man, helping me out already
Comment by Javier — May 26, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
With patch changes that have occured and different things I have heard… Do you still keep the faster dagger in the MH, or is it better to have the slower one in MH now?
Comment by Fear — June 1, 2009 @ 4:53 pm
I know everyone means well when they abbreviate words,but for us that are new to abbreviation’s sometings dont make any since. Why people dont feel they have to spell things out is beyound me lol . I know by doing it this shows you are well gifted in the game. When doing rotations ( if your intensions are too really help someone ) you should spell out each word so new people will know what your talking about…..
Comment by orcangel — June 6, 2009 @ 5:10 am
After the patch they changed the poison proc chance
slower weps = higher chance of proc
Is faster weps still good too use?
Comment by Roflmaopwnd — June 24, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
My roation is as follows for patch 3.2
Garrote–HfB—SnD—shiv–Envenom–mutil–mutil–rupture
Rinse and repeat armory me my name is ancientenemy i dont have the best gear but last night i pulled about4.3k dps on 25 patchwerk
After that initial rotation i just continue to refresh slice n dice and ruptures repectively
Comment by Ancientenemy — August 17, 2009 @ 9:42 pm
Ancientenemy:
Why do you use shiv? I use the same rotation, but you dont need to shiv at all…Use muti instead. Cost almost the same NRG and does double DMG, and BOOM there is the 5 combo point. Plus sometime i wait for someone to put the bleeding effect up then start with ambush. Try it and improve you dps a bit
Comment by Trib — November 9, 2009 @ 7:13 am
лох ты буржуй епаный хахаахах )))
Comment by Komat — January 12, 2010 @ 9:52 pm
И все вы тут лохи ))) буржуи )) фанари бля я ваш рот таптал ))
Comment by Komat — January 12, 2010 @ 9:53 pm
бугага, заморыши ебаные:))))))
Comment by Экзотичный Петюня — January 13, 2010 @ 3:03 am
вы оба школота
Comment by апасный тролль — March 2, 2010 @ 6:26 am
Вы 2 придурка.
Comment by Nellio — March 2, 2010 @ 8:38 am
Im having a bit of trouble losing hit points cause im way over cap heres a link to my armory if you get the chance i could use some help i find myself still pulling about 6k dps in raids.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malygos&cn=Chardin
Comment by Chardin — March 23, 2010 @ 9:24 am
Ну наши красавчеги и тут засветились =)
Comment by Ыть — May 23, 2010 @ 12:08 am